Thursday, September 10, 2015

Gut bacteria may impact body weight, fat and good cholesterol levels

Sorry, no new content from me, just a link to a Medical Express article that says:

"Our study provides new evidence that microbes in the gut are strongly linked to the blood level of HDL (good cholesterol) and triglycerides and may be added as a new risk factor for abnormal blood lipids, in addition to age, gender, BMI and genetics," said Jingyuan Fu, Ph.D., study lead author and associate professor of genetics at University Medical Center Groningen in the Netherlands.
Using state-of-the-art deep sequencing technology, researchers studied the association between and in 893 people in the Netherlands. They identified:
  • 34 different types of bacteria contributed to differences in body fat (BMI) and blood lipids such as triglycerides and the known as high-density lipoprotein or HDL. Most were new associations.
  • Bacteria in the gut contributed to 4.6 percent of the difference in body fat, 6 percent in triglycerides and 4 percent in HDL.
  • Surprisingly, gut bacteria had little relationship with bad cholesterol (low-density lipoproteins or LDL ) or total .

I think that's pretty cool.  Sort of exactly as we have been saying around here lately. What can we do to tip the odds in our favor that we can capitalize on these helpful little beasts?

- Eat lots of fiber
- Eat lots of fermented foods
- Eat less processed and more whole foods
- Exercise
- Reduce stress
- Sleep well
- Give up bad habits
- Wean yourself off of medications where possible
- Don't live an overly sterile life

Later,
Tim

130 comments:

  1. Well, well, something good coming out of Groningen. The University of Groningen is very much into paleo, so this fits in nicely with what we are reading about how important gut health is for overall health.

    I would add to your list try to eat a substantial portion of your vegetables raw.
    I think it was Art who said: A gut continually packed with fresh plant matter seems to be the trick to overcoming lots of problems.

    Jo tB

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  2. Wasn't me. I would be more likely to say something like, "Think dirty." I did say, "Health is contagious." I was criticized for implying the guilt trip that obesity is also contagious. I don't know if that is literally true via transfer of gut flora.

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    1. Since reading your blogs, I've quit washing my farmer's market produce. Buy it at the store--I wash it well.

      Lori

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    2. "I was criticized for implying the guilt trip that obesity is also contagious"

      Hmm... Some researchers believe that obesity is caused by a pathogen. Adenovirus-36 (Ad-36). Thin people only have a 5% chance of infection, but obese people have a 20-30% chance of being infected. The results are a bit confounding. But, interestingly, researchers have observed a dramatic increase in hepcidin gene expression 1 day after adenovirus-mediated inflammation:

      http://www.jci.org/articles/view/15686

      That fit quite nicely into the iron hypothesis as well. The adenovirus promotes inflammation, and that inflammation likely causes hepcidin to go haywire...

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC151151/

      ...which perhaps promotes the accumulation of iron in the adipose tissue to keep iron out of the blood, and away from the adenovirus.

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  3. People still pay attention to cholesterol???
    I think a statement like "Eat lots of fiber" is too general to be of much actionable value. It's like saying... eat sufficient fat, eat sufficient protein, eat moderate carbs. These are talking about categories that are too broad to be of much use as far as a recommendation for optimal health. There needs to be a drill-down, like eat plenty of XXX, YYY types of prebiotic fibers.
    This isn't meant as a criticism, just a call to be more specific. We get enough broad stroke generalizations from the m-ass media outlets.

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  4. It's odd that I have a history of obesity, high HDL, fine triglycerides, and constipation. It seems these wouldn't go together. The high HDL persists whatever the weight, whatever the diet.

    Debbie

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    1. It can be genetic. There was a study done of old Jewish people (90+) in an old folks home in New York in re: HDL. Some of these oldsters were smokers, they didn't eat particularly stellar diets and their HDL was high.

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    2. http://eatingacademy.com/cholesterol-2/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-ix

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    3. That explains it! And of course every MD I've ever seen has tried to get my on cholesterol lowering medication. Thanks.

      Debbie

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    4. Debbie, lower the ratio of carbs in your diet. I mean by this sugar and processed grains. Even rice. I had my cholesterols tested recently and despite the fact that I haven't been paying all that much attention to certain things up till then, like exercise (remedying that now) the HDL was 1.75 and the LDL etc. were all good.

      With a lot of women, if thyroid is sluggish, LDL goes up. Taking thyroid hormone reduces LDL biggie time. Doctors do the TSH and if it's 'in range' it's all good. But if it's above 2.2, then it's sluggish thyroid. Range goes up to 5.0 usually. I'd be dead by then. Mine needs to be kept at 0.5 or I'm toast. Test needs to be done first thing in the a.m. on an empty stomach.

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    5. Debbie, same here. Over the last 15 years My HDL has ranged between 1.3 and 1.7. And my doctor has offered me statins, but I refused. And I have had constipation for as long as I can remeber. With recent interventions things have improved, I am more frequent now (often daily).

      My thyroid has been tested and my T3 and T4 were all good, so no sluggish thyroid as I thought. But apparently a mirror image could be adrenal fatigue. In stage 3, I wouldn't be able to get out of bed. But the adrenal could be between stage 1 and 2 (tired, through overwork, instead of fatigued).

      Jo tB

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    6. Jo, doctors don't push statins on patients based on HDL.

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    7. Gabriella, they do here. And I've read on internet that the pharmaceutical industry would like to have it prescibed to everyone as a precautionary measure.

      Jo tB

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    8. Gabi, MD's push statins based solely on age here. Over 50? Here's your script, just in case. Just like mammograms, colonoscopies, and everything else they can throw at the gullible, er, I mean worried well. It's good preventative medicine, dontcha know.

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    9. Actually, my last blood work showed that even with my high cholesterol, the lab reported "low risk" based on the ratio of my various levels. I'm sure most doctors would still be pushing the statins.

      Debbie

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    10. Jo, they'd like to put statins in the water supply. If they could get away with it. I don't know any physician with any intelligence who would ever take statins. But Health Canada states it is standard of care, so they have to prescribe it to the patient. Up to the patient to fill the prescription though.

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  5. Hi Tim,

    I've been experimenting with RS lately and wanted to get your opinion on something. Before starting, my FBG was around 100-110. When I started getting some RS from cooked and cooled foods (beans, potatoes, rice), my FBG didn't change. Then I added in some PS. 2Tbs dropped my FBG to the low 100's, consistently. Increasing to 4Tbs dropped it further to around 90-95. Increasing to 6Tbs dropped it even further to 85-90. I haven't tried it yet but I wonder what would happen if I went to 8Tbs -- it's got to bottom out somewhere right?

    Also interesting: I've tried stopping for a few days a few times and it always climbs back to the old levels. It's been about 2 weeks that I've been taking it consistently, at least 2Tbs/day. I haven't noticed any of the other reported benefits so far. TMI has been poor for as long as I can remember -- technically not constipated, but stools that are dry and hard to pass regardless. Taking PS didn't help as much as I'd hoped it would, but maybe I'm just being impatient.

    Just wondering if you have any thoughts. Have you heard of anyone else who's had a similar reaction? Does it take a while to see results in other areas? Am I doing something wrong? Is it OK in the long term to be taking so much?

    Thanks,
    Roger

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    1. Roger - From what I gather, at a certain point, more potato starch will end up passing through undigested. The upper limit seems to be 4-6TBS. I don't think there will ever be a point where eating too much causes your blood sugar to drop too low.

      2 weeks is probably not long enough to see all the benefits of a high-fiber diet, which is what you are attempting here.

      Also, quite possibly, your diet lacks other fiber components that you need for the full effects. Make sure you are also eating lots of fruits, veggies, fermented foods, beans, rice, and whole grains. Oats seem a perfect fit. Experiment with all the different oat types (graots, bran, steel-cut, rolled), 1/4-1/2 cup a day cooked or raw seems a nice amount. Also lots of fresh berries.

      But it sounds to me like you may be recovering from a long period of SAD, low carb, or low fiber and just need some time to learn new eating habits and fiber sources.

      Potato starch is a good supplementary fiber, but think more about the whole food sources, too.

      Nor sure why your comment went to spam, I will try to watch for more and revive.
      Tim

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    2. Or, just watch this!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBtu7JtGYRM

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    3. I've read several places that adequate fat intake can help with constipation, in addition to the fiber and fermented foods Tim mentions. If you are eating only the soft parts of plants, quit it. Eat the hard parts too. I'm thinking broccoli and cauliflower stems instead of florets. The branches of fennel (cut into disks so you can chew them). The green parts of leeks. The stems of collards and kale. Cutting these across the fibers makes them easy to chew.

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    4. Wilbur, if the gall bladder is working properly, then fat should have no effect on bowel movements. If the gall bladder is NOT working properly, then high fat intake will cause steatorrhea, which is explosive and stinks to high heaven.

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    5. Tim - I didn't want to go into a lot of detail and end up dumping a huge wall of text, but I do have a history of poor health in many areas. I'm 26 years old now. I think my health started taking a turn for the worse around 5 years ago. I started feeling fatigued, having brain fog, started balding (might be genetic, don't know), having widespread body pain (never officially diagnosed, but the pains seem similar to descriptions of fibromyalgia). I've had a hard time with bowel movements for most of my life, and they got even worse.

      I can't think of anything in particular that triggered it. I was still reeling from some familial turmoil and it was a stressful time in my life as a result, but other than that my diet wasn't particularly bad. The doctors I went to couldn't find anything wrong with me. They thought I was depressed and that I needed to see a psychiatrist.

      So I took things into my own hands and started researching and changing my diet. First I tried the Terry Wahls approach of eating tons of veggies, but that didn't help with wellbeing and it made my constipation worse. My stools were still hard and dry and they just got bigger. If you don't know the Wahls diet, it involves tons of non-starchy veggies and paleo-style meats.

      Then I tried a low fiber diet as suggested by the Fiber Menace book. That worked for a while in that my stools were smaller, but they were still dry and hard to pass. When it stopped working I was in worse shape than when I started. Looking back, I think that little stint really wreaked havoc on my electrolyte levels because it was so low carb.

      Then I stumbled onto the PHD book and started changing my diet accordingly. When I added potatoes back, I knew I was on the right track because I started having a nearly insatiable appetite for them. I would cook up a tray and end up binging, eating 2-3 pounds of potato at a time. It settled down after a few days.

      Around this time I did another blood test and found that my fasting blood glucose was in the 100's. My doctor didn't think it was a big deal but I glommed onto it since it was the only smoking gun I had. So I bought a glucose monitor and started measuring fasting and postprandial numbers. My postprandials were pretty bad too -- it would shoot up to the 200's an hour after eating 1/2 pound of mashed potatoes. That's how I ended up finding Free The Animal and potato starch.

      My current diet is still based around the PHD with the addition of properly prepared beans and corn tortillas. I remember reading that the two most important fibers are resistant starch and pectin, so I try to eat an apple every day or so for the pectin, in addition to other fruits and veggies. I also copied your idea of cooking a few pounds of potato at the beginning of the week and eating 1-2/day -- it's a real time-saver. I do the same with parboiled rice.

      Unfortunately I still don't feel much better. I'm still in pain all the time, have weird neurological symptoms like burning and tingling, brain fog is still bad, and bathroom trips are still a painful ordeal. The pain is especially bad around the back of my neck and seems to radiate down my arms. I've also noticed that eating a lot of protein makes my fatigue and weakness worse (ammonia?). The threshold seems to be around 80-90g, so I try to stay below that.

      I was excited when I saw that PS helped with my FBG because I thought: if it helps with my FBG, it'll probably help with my other problems as well. Based on what you said, it seems I'm on the right track and I just need to be patient. I really hope things get better in the next few weeks and I'll try to remember and post an update.

      Thanks a lot for your help and everyone else who responded,
      Roger

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    6. I'm with Wilbur on this one. I've seen just taking a small spoonful of olive oil by mouth do wonders for people with dry, hard to pass stools.

      I wonder, too, if one of the ways these hard-to-eat parts of the plants help is by forcing us to chew more and by extension stimulating saliva?

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    7. Roger, get your TSH, fT4 and fT3, HbA1c, tested. Also B12, retinol, folate and ferritin. I'll assume you are taking vitamin d3. But get that measure as well . Post results and see if we can help you. Okay? I don't care of all these are 'in range'. You need to be optimal and that's different.

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    8. Roger, have you seen a physiotherapist?

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    9. Gabriella - That's another part I left out of my message. When I went to my doctor about these problems, I was referred to a bunch of specialists. They all examined me, tested me, and told me I was fine and nothing was wrong. Not that I put all of my faith in their words; I'm just trying to give you an overview of my past. I'm actually quite disillusioned when it comes to doctors because I've realized that they ignore the effect of diet and nutrition on health which is mind-boggling to me. Anyway, all in all, I saw a rheumatologist, gastroenterologist, hematologist, orthopedist, and probably a few more that I'm forgetting.

      I also went through a micronutrient obsession phase and bugged my doctor to test me for certain things when I found that my symptoms matched. Then I tried supplementing with various things on my own and went down the methylation rabbit hole, but eventually gave up after finding that nothing helped.

      By the way, I've done a 23andMe test and ran it through GeneticGenie if you're familiar with that. The only red (homozygous) result was MAO A R297R. MTHFR C677T and A1298C were both heterozygous. There were a few other heterozygous results as well, but nothing that should cause the symptoms I'm having as far as I know.

      I try to go out into the sun whenever I can, but it's rare for me to have enough energy to do that so I do take Vitamin D3 - 5000IU/day.

      I've tested most of the things on your list, the only exceptions being fT4, HbA1c, and retinol. I've included the ones I have below, and some others that may be relevant. Some are from different times, but all are from this year.

      TSH: 2.295 uIU/mL
      T4 (Total): 7.70 ug/dL
      T3 (Free): 3.4 pg/mL
      Thyroglobulin Autoantibodies: <20 IU/mL
      Thyroid Peroxidase Autoantibodies: <28 U/mL

      Ferritin: 58 ng/mL

      Vitamin D3 (25-OH): 46 ng/mL

      Vitamin B12: 1108 pg/mL
      Methylmalonic acid: <0.10 umol/L
      Folate: 38.4 ng/mL
      Homocysteine: 10.9 umol/L

      Thanks,
      Roger

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    10. Wildcucumber - Yes I have. Nothing was discovered during the examination, but they gave me a list of exercises to do at home and scheduled followup appointments. I went back a few times, but I stopped going because I had to leave my job around that time and lost my insurance. It didn't seem to be helping anyway.

      Roger

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    11. Roger, I'm sorry to hear that, especially if you have radiating pain coming from your neck.

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    12. Roger, you did not post the ranges for the blood tests but if someone has high morning blood glucose, then HbA1c is needed to be tested.

      Was the blood taken first thing in the a.m. on an empty stomach? TSH is highest early in the morning. But even at fT3 of 3.4 that's bottom of range by most tests. They do vary somewhat from lab to lab which is why knowing the range is recommended. The tests I've had done vary with bottom of range at 3.6, 3.1 and 2.6, upper end 6.8. 6.5 and 5.7. Needless to say, regardless the range of the lab you went to, 3.4 is low or low in range.

      Your muscles cannot possibly respond to physical exertion or improvement if they are not able to utilize energy. And blood sugar regulation also requires use of muscles and exercise.

      My own back looks like I'm a failed skydiver. Being left on inadequate thyroid meds for many years... makes me wonder if all of this could have been avoided. Now taking advantage of a situation whereby I can retire at age 57 because the pain was torture. I'm going to the YMCA (affordable) and have a personal trainer (covered by the membership fee), a routine, lots of walking and some swimming. Also thyroid meds have been raised and raised again. So am optimistic that the muscles will strengthen and provide support for my totally ruined back. I told her that right now I'm not ambitious. I just want to be able to cope. ;) Ultimately though, it's about discipline and doing whatever I've been assigned to do. I'd been driving everywhere and now take transit which means I'm walking. At least the weather is okay. Small changes and gradual ones but consistent ones ought to make the difference. And that applies to diet as well. If you revamp your diet, then that's a lifestyle choice as well.

      Unfortunately doctors look at test results and if they are not flagged as being abnormal, they just think it's all fine. It's not fine.

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    13. I just started to read Roger's thread. I must be missing something, because all of his symptoms point to classic gut dysbiosis with total loss of diversity, i.e. constipation unresponsive to multiple dietary interventions. Another big flag for me is potential thyroid symptoms indicative of celiac and Hashimoto's that might lead to gut dysbiosis. Hair loss and back connective tissue weakness are also related to celiac. I would suspect initial loss of Tregs to produce autoimmunity and then overall immune loss as the gut flora crashed.

      Why isn't the dysbiosis being addressed? Roger's gut is obviously missing keystone species of bacteria and how is he attempting to replace those missing species so that dietary changes will have some impact? In the meantime, till the new bacteria arrive, why not replace the function with temporary dairy probiotics in the form of probiotic supplements and fermented vegetables? I am surprised that no food intolerances are mentioned.

      BTW, these are not snarky questions. I am seriously asking.

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    14. Maybe he could just go outside and lie in the grass for an hour a day. Even that would help. Chew grass blades. There's your soil based organisms right there. No exercise, no exertion, just lie in the grass. Get grounded.

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    15. I have yet to see a uBiome report that does not show that the person has all of the bacteria we consider healthy. I've seen very healthy people with no bifidobacteria or lactobacillus, and I seen sick people with plenty of these.

      And the others, the ones not found in probiotics, as of yet, the Ruminococcus, Akkermansia, Bacteroides, Alistipes, Blautia, etc... Those seem to be in everybody's report.

      I have yet to see a report that shows a total lack of butyrate producers or lactic acid bacteria types. It is very frustrating, but it gives me hope that just eating right, getting down and dirty with nature, and fixing other poor lifestyle choices are enough to fix people's guts.

      I usually tell people with the modern, dyspeptic gut to first clean up the diet of all crap, then add lots of fiber and fermented foods, supplement with potato starch, inulin, or Hi-Maize and eat lots of fruit and veggies. I think probiotics may help some people, and they are certainly worth experimenting with.

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    16. Gabriella,

      Here are the test results again, this time with the ranges:

      TSH: 2.295 uIU/mL (0.35-5.50)
      T4 (Total): 7.70 ug/dL (4.50-10.90)
      T3 (Free): 3.4 pg/mL (2.3-4.2)
      Thyroglobulin Autoantibodies: <20 IU/mL (<41)
      Thyroid Peroxidase Autoantibodies: <28 U/mL (<61)

      Ferritin: 58 ng/mL (22-322)

      Vitamin D3 (25-OH): 46 ng/mL (30-100)

      Vitamin B12: 1108 pg/mL (211-911)
      Methylmalonic acid: <0.10 umol/L (<0.40)
      Folate: 38.4 ng/mL (>5.4)
      Homocysteine: 10.9 umol/L (3.7-13.9)

      All of the thyroid samples were collected around 10am. I'm not sure what to make of your thyroid suggestions. Are you saying that I probably have hypothyroid and I should be on thyroid medication? There's so much conflicting information out there that I really have no idea what to make of my results. What are your thyroid results like? Were they "normal" when you started taking medication?

      As an aside, I wish I could find a doctor who was willing to explore and try different things with me. The ones I've been to so far are content with saying they don't know what's wrong and the best they can do is give me pain medication or refer me to a psychiatrist. I'm not exaggerating or kidding.

      Anyway, my blood sugar regulation these days is pretty good as long as I keep taking the potato starch. With 6Tbs a day, my FBG is between 85-95, and my 1hr postprandial after eating about 10oz potato is around 110. Whatever the problem was, potato starch seems to be fixing it. I do worry about what would happen if I stopped, but I want to keep it up for a few weeks to see if it will help with my other problems. I do have quite a bit of gas which is a good sign as far as I understand it.

      I'd like to start exercising, but my energy is still limited. Most days my body aches pretty much from head to toe. The back of my neck, my triceps, and my quads ache the most, in that order. It's like I haven't recovered from exercise, but no matter how much I rest, I still don't recover. I do go on walks when I feel well enough to do so though.

      Thanks,
      Roger

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    17. Dr. Ayers,

      I have tried to address gut flora with different approaches in the past. Yogurt was a regular part of my diet. At one point I was making kefir from kefir grains and drinking a glass or two a day. I also tried taking various probiotics. Unfortunately they all either didn't work at all or stopped working after a few days.

      Nowadays I try to include fermented veggies in my diet -- mostly sauerkraut. I also supplement with quite a bit of potato starch and eat other foods with prebiotics such as beans, cooked and cooled potatoes, apples, onions, garlic. Based on what Tim said, it's still too early to expect big changes, but I'm optimistic about it based on the results I've gotten so far with my blood sugar regulation.

      I don't have any food sensitivities that I know of. Even so, I tried eliminating gluten-containing foods a while ago when I tried the Wahls diet. I actually even eliminated dairy and eggs for a couple months as she suggests since they can cause problems for some people.

      I apologize for excluding some details from my story, but I have quite a long history of failed attempts, and I forget them sometimes until someone jogs my memory.

      What's your opinion of my current approach? Do you think I'm on the right track with potato starch, fermented veggies, other foods with fermentable fibers?

      Thanks,
      Roger

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    18. I'm just throwing this out there because a neighbor had similar problems. Have you been tested for Lyme disease?

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    19. Wilbur,

      Yes, the rheumatologist I went to tested me for Lyme. Your neighbor *had* similar problems, as in past tense? If so, do you know what he/she did to get better?

      Thanks,
      Roger

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    20. I don't talk to her much about it, but last I heard she was feeling much better. I see her out walking and doing things. Sorry, I do not know what she did. She and her husband are believers in medicine, so I'm sure it was medicine-based.

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    21. Normal healthy people have TSH in the 1.4 range. Once it gets to where yours is, that means the pituitary is having to stimulate the thyroid extra to get it to work. Aches and pains like you have can be from low vitamin D although yours is not abysmal.

      The ranges on your test results are very different than any I've seen yet but it seem you are in mid range with the fT3. It should be higher than mid range in healthy people. So lets say range is 3.4 to 6.5. 5.2 to 5.6 is optimal. And yes, you could experiment with taking some thyroid hormone. Sometimes that's really all it takes.

      Back a million years ago my TSH was 3. And I was crawling like a worm on the planet. That endocrinologist wanted me to continue crawling. Then an M.D. noticed my thyroid was puffy, did bloodwork and put me on Eltroxen. I have been on thyroid since 1983. The dose has had to be increased over time.

      Look at it this way: If a person takes 60 mg of Armour thyroid and takes it for a few months and it doesn't help at all at any time for symptoms, then stopping it will not cause irreversible damage.

      It's like I take prednisone for times when I injure my back. When I stop, it's not like my adrenals won't ever function again.

      I can get really stiff and sore as well but find that working out on the Arc Trainer makes things loosen up and I feel better for the exercise. If I'm sitting around a lot and not moving, I have problems. Muscles need to be provided with fresh blood and oxygen and the circulation needs to be stimulated.

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    22. Roger, Can I chip in from another angle? Have you been tested for low stomach acid? If you suffer from heartburn, then the obvious conclusion is taken that you have too much acid, when the opposite is the case. When stomach acid is low, proper digestion doesn't take place.

      I have posted in other threads that I went to an orthomolecular therepist and had a stool test done. I was diagnosed as being histamine intolerant, my stomach pH was higher (6.6 and it should be around 2), low stomach acid, my biofilm was on the thin side and needed building up. I asked about adrenal fatigue (as it is the mirror image of low thyroid function), but she said if I had stage 3 adrenal fatigue I wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning. I could possibly be between 1 and 2.

      That makes me think have you had your adrenals looked at?

      I have suffered from constipation for as long as I can remember. I started having severe buttock cramps when I turned 65. Was checked for a hernia, but results were "no" I still have cramps and low back pain 7 years later, but not as intense anymore. So I understand your frustration with the pain not going away.

      My bloodsugars are too high, I know, but the diabetes medication doesn't work and I think it is all down to chronic inflammation and stress. As I always say, the sugar processing plant slows down when fleeing from a tiger. Can't very well ask for time out to deel with low blood sugars (Hypo) in the middle of the flight and the tiger thinking he has a juicy meal in sight. (tough old bird more like!!)

      For years I have been worried about thinning hair. Thyroid problems are the first thing to come to mind, but apparently it can also be due to vitamin deficiencies caused by low stomach acid . In the past I was often told to take extra magnesium, but it has only slighly helped. I'm hoping that concentrating on getting the stomach acid under control will help with hair thinning.

      Roger, hope this gives you other areas to look at. It is helping me.

      Jo tB

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    23. Hi Jo,

      Can ask what sort of testing you've had for stomach acid? I'm the UK and there is no way the local docs will entertain any tests I ask for (to say all they are bothered about is the budget is a massive understatement) - hence I'll need to fund this myself if Im interested.

      Also what steps are you taking (assuming no thyroid issues and obviously working on your flora as per this site) to try to kick start your own production of HCL?

      Sorry if this has already been asked elsewhere

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    24. Rob, we can't get that done on the Dutch national health either. I had to pay for it myself. There are several commercial labs that do it, and the price varies from 105 to 209 Euros depending on what you want done. I had it done after consulting with an orthomoleculair therapist (I think in the UK you would have to go to a naturapathic doctor or dietician).

      To lower my stomach pH she recommended a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar on an empty stomach. I found this to very harsh, but after reading about it on internet I have added 1/2 tablespoon of raw honey to the mix with half a cup of warm water and I can drink that. She also recommended Biotics Research Hydro-Zyme (betaine and pepsin) for my low stomach acid twice a day. She also recommended Sana Intest MBR Probiotics. Sachets to dssolved in water. And for the histamine intolerance I have to watch what I eat. There are several lists on internet which foods are low and which are high in histamine. I have to avoid eating the same foods day after day, because that will tip the bucket to overflow. Then the itching starts again. Off my own bat, I have started taking 2 enzyme caps with each meal (after reading extensively about it on internet) to help with digestion, so that my body doesn't have to draw too much out of the stores. I also take a tablespoon of inulin (as I have to avoid potatos and PS). I try to eat as much root vegetables as possible and am trying as many new vegetables (for me) to vary my diet as much as possible. Unfortunately, with my histamine intolerance I can't eat fermented vegetables yet, maybe later start making my own sauerkraut again. I have read that sprouting is good for me, and I have to start doing that on a regular basis. Especially pea sprouts seem to be very good for HIT.

      I have better bowl movements, but if I slack off for a day or two, then the constipation is back straight away.

      Lert me know if you have further questions.

      Jo tB

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    25. Jo - Thanks for the very detailed reply. I've really made leaps and bounds over the past couple of weeks, but am still getting too much bloating. I think one of the reasons (main one) I've improved is I've cut down on protein drastically and stop eating as soon as I'm full.

      I'm wandering if this has helped so much because of high stomach PH and/ or lack of enzymes. I'm away with work at the moment so I intend to try enzymes again when I'm back.

      Just out of interest - do you take the honey for flavour or for the extra enzymes?
      Thanks

      Delete
    26. I take the honey to take away the tart taste of the apple cider vinegar. I hadn't thought of the extra enzymes (nice benefit).

      If you are still suffering from a lot of bloating, it might be that you have increased your fiber too quickly, too much. If I take a large dose of Maize starch then I bloat. I think it is too much for my gut bacteria to take at the moment.

      Apparently sprouting gives the same benefits as fermented foods as far as enzymes and vitamins and minerals are concerned. I tried sprouting pea seeds, it turned out to be quite easy. But if I am to eat them every day, I would have to have 7 pots on the go. I should really interchange them with other seeds.

      Jo tB

      Delete
    27. Roger,

      If you haven't seen Ashwin Patel's site you might want to take a look:

      http://www.emptyingthebowel.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=27

      He talks about fiber, exercise and water intake. But he also talks about Pro-kinetics and posture as other culprits in constipation.

      SL

      Delete
    28. Thanks Jo, the bloating seems worse after proteins or certain starches. I'll give the enzymes and fermented stuff a whirl
      Cheers

      Delete
  6. Tim, I bet I could use more fiber. So, just to confirm, oats are fine eating raw?

    Debbie

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'll interrupt here. If you cook steelcut oats or oat groats, eat them cooked, cooled and reheated. That way you get the resistant starch and the soluble fibre. Make up a big pot of oat groats, cooked like rice, put them in the fridge and warm up servings when needed.

      Delete
    2. Oats straight from the field, or animal food type oats are raw. These should not be eaten. But probably won't hurt you.

      The oats you buy as rolled, bran, steel-cut, and even groats are all cooked to some degree.

      It is OK to eat these "raw", ie. not further cooked.

      Confusing, I know. It really does pay to play with the different types. To me, oatmeal was just Quaker Rolled Oats up until about a year ago when I started looking at oats as a fiber source. Now rolled oats are my least favorite. I have started using oat groats, boiling in water for about 5-10 minutes, then add a handful of oat bran right at the end to thicken.

      Steel cut oats are also great, but again, I only cook for 5-10 minutes, some packages say "cook 40 minutes" or somthing crazy. I like them chewy.

      We also make no-bake cookies with raw rolled oats, cocoa powder, butter, milk, and coconut. Dangerous. I eat them all.

      But also like Gab says...precook and cool. Too easy.

      Delete
  7. Thanks to you both. Eh.......the truth is, I don't really cook. So, I like the idea of throwing some oats into my dinner. :)

    D.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. D - I don't think we should let this admission slip away into the ether. You've said it, so let's talk about it - why don't you cook?

      Delete
    2. Exactly. Debbie, please define "I don't really cook."

      Do you eat your food cold?

      Delete
    3. Yeah. I'm thirding this.

      My first thought was good thing your ancestors cooked, or you wouldn't be here.

      Delete
    4. I'll chime in. Back when I "didn't cook" that meant lots of frozen meals and stuff. There are lots of reasons not to eat them, but the veggies were practically nonexistent and lifeless. The same is true for most restaurants.

      Get more fiber through fresh veggies. The great thing is that not all of them need to be cooked.

      Debbie, what is a typical meal for you?

      Delete
    5. I was thinking about this subject the other day. I made some gluten free spaghetti and dumped a jar of Paul Newman's organic spaghetti sauce on it.

      This is "cooking" to most Americans, but it is pure convenience foods. All we really know is fast-food.

      Stir-frying a big batch of raw veggies and meat, cooking a batch of real, whole grain unenriched rice (as opposed to Minute Rice), now that's cooking.

      Or making some homemade pasta and bread. Or a slow-cooker roast with fresh potatoes and carrots. Or even grilling burgers from raw, especially when you had a hand in the grinding of said burger...that's cooking.

      Making a big pot of soup with all sorts of fresh veggies and spices. Making quark, kefir, kvass, or yogurt...that's cooking.

      But a Hot Pocket or Hamburger Helper...sorry. Not cooking.

      I remember reading a story about convenience foods in the 50s and 60s. they pre-packaged everything you needed to make bread, cakes, cookies, etc.. just add water. The housewives of the era felt it was cheating. As soon as they reformulated so the instructions called for the addition of an egg and some oil, it once again felt like "cooking" and sales took off.

      I try to cook one meal a day, at least, from ingredients I can recognize that do not come in a box. Last night it was chicken breast and thigh meat and potato chunks simmered in coconut cream and milk with onion, garlic, turmeric, cumin, salt, pepper, and green beans. Kind of my take on Chicken Korma. Everything was fresh except the turmeric and cumin and the coconut milk was from a can.

      I'm thinking tonight will be fried chicken livers and onions over rice.

      "Cooking" does not have to be that hard. Prepared foods, even if they make you feel you are cooking, all contain weird crap. Emulsifiers, colors, flavors, oils, sugars, refined wheat...mostly. Those are the ingredients I try my hardest to avoid.

      Get to cookin'!

      Delete
    6. Debbie - Cooking is such a pleasure. It's art you can eat! A few simple, colourful foods arranged nicely on a plate will feed all your senses.

      How can we help you to fall in love with food?

      Delete
    7. Too many people think that cooking is a plebian activity and they are 'above' cooking. So they eat crap instead. They don't have to get their hands dirty, keep their knives sharp.

      This week-end I sweated onion, leek, garlic, parsley root (lots), carrot and celeriac plus thyme. It's my base for fish soup. Added finely chopped potato and water, cooked for a few minutes, added haddock.... cook it through... sprinkle with freshly chopped parsley... Yum.

      But then, against Wilburisms, I really enjoy a huge bowl of good soup at the end of the working day. It just hits the spot. Lot of fibre too.

      Then again, I come from a soupivore culture. Soup is what determines if someone knows how to cook. If you can make delicious out of nothing much, then you have arrived.

      Delete
  8. http://www.businessinsider.com/microbiome-determines-diet-2015-9

    ReplyDelete
  9. Just got my annual blood work back and my only concern was a low normal VitD level (34) with a reference range of 30-80. Will start supplementing again. Total chol a little too low (169) but HDL and LDL both improved from last year. My only med is 75 mcg of synthroid with a TSH of .775. Fasting BG was 82. Ferritin 35. I give blood four or five times a year. All in all very pleased after a seventy pound weight loss, etc.
    I ferment my own vegetables, garden year round, and am outside every day. I do supplement fiber a la Wilbur with the fermented vegetables. Saturday I hope to do a 62 mile bike ride for which I have been training all summer. I am 62 years old.

    A question.

    My doctor thinks I should be on baby aspirin. Currently no cardiac symptoms, no prior cardiac events except for HTN now long resolved. I am not inclined to start aspirin therapy as I do have a hx of esophagitis, heartburn ,again, now resolved.

    Any thoughts?

    Again, the health improvements are at least in part to the things I have learned here.

    Thank you all so much!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's excellent! Out of curiosity, how did the fiber intake correlate with your health improvements? I mean things like whether the fiber came before, during, or after your weight loss. Do you have a rough idea of how many g of fiber you get in supplements and food? What kind of diet do you eat typically? How long have you been doing this?

      HTN? Hypertension?

      I'm not giving advice, but for me I will not take any medication that the doctor cannot fully justify. My body performs do well now at the things I know about that I have to trust it to do what's best for me on the things I don't.

      A 62-mile bike ride is impressive. Good luck!

      Delete
    2. 70 pound weight loss - how wonderful! I'm so happy for you! And the bike ride - fantastic!

      I relate to the difficulty of to follow or not follow The Doctor's advice. Very tough. These days I get my blood work done and run. My D was low too - lower than yours - and so was magnesium, and so I'm supplementing. But who knows what the best course of action or no action is? I have really high cholesterol, but the ratios are so good the report comes back "low risk." But many doctors - most - would hand me the statin prescription.

      All the best to you going forward!

      Debbie

      Delete
    3. Great job, man!

      re: Aspirin - Lots of good reasons to pop an aspirin every day. Just be absolutely sure that you take on a FULL stomach, not empty. Aspirin is hell on the stomach lining.

      Aspirin also just recently shown to prevent colon cancer.

      http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/09/14/in-a-first-aspirin-is-recommended-to-fight-a-form-of-cancer/?_r=0

      "For years, doctors have recommended daily aspirin to lower cardiovascular risk in certain men and women. Now, for the first time, an expert panel is recommending aspirin therapy to prevent heart attacks and colorectal cancer.

      The guideline for those at high risk of heart disease, published Monday in a draft report from the United States Preventive Services Task Force, is the first time a major American medical organization has issued a broad recommendation to take aspirin to prevent a form of cancer. The move follows a growing body of evidence that suggests that aspirin may be a potent yet overlooked weapon in the war against colorectal cancer.

      Even so, the draft guidelines are drawing criticism from some experts who worry that healthy people who take aspirin also expose themselves to its very serious side effects, including stomach bleeds and hemorrhagic strokes or brain bleeds. Others say there are far better proven ways to prevent heart attacks and thwart colon cancer, such as cholesterol-and blood-pressure-lowering drugs to reduce heart risk and screening colonoscopy to identify precancerous polyps....see more at link above"

      Delete
    4. LDL cholesterol will reduce when the patient is on adequate thyroid hormone replacement.

      Hypothyroidism means that the digestive tract does not function properly (as does everything else not work right). Hypothyroid patients get what they think is excess acid but in fact the acid is inadequate, food sits in the stomach and acid reflux happens because the GI tract is not functioning optimally.

      Delete
    5. @Wilbur. All weight loss and initial resolution of hypertension, etc, came within a few months of a very strict Paleo diet started about four years ago. Much later, RPS and other supplemental fibers. Dried plantains are staple. 30-50 grams of fiber a day? I often say I started out a Paleo but ended up a fermento. My favorite ferments are often turnips and radishes from my garden. This annual blood work is my only interest in quantified self other than energy level, mood, sleep, etc. All pretty good as such.

      @Debbie. Thanks. Twenty years ago I did three centuries on my bike, 100 miles in a day, over the period of a year or two so I have some experience. But regaining the joy of riding again even though it's 'chronic cardio' is really nice. Really nice.

      @Gabriella
      My worst TSH value was 3.03 at my sickest. It dropped immediately with the dietary changes. Never had antibodies, etc, checked. Another recent score that improved was Total Protein after coming off very high doses of PPI's. I don't think I had any stomach acid so absorption suffered. I also supplement fairly aggressively with magnesium plus a little milk thistle extract and turmeric.

      @Tim. I saw the recent reports on stricter guidelines for aspirin therapy. As always I wonder if it could contribute to gut dybiosis as Dr. Art feels all drugs have antibiotic effects on the gut. I'm in no rush. And to you, Tim, in particular, many thanks.

      Delete
    6. Rudy, I don't know where you live, but in Canada milk is the number one source of dietary iodine. As people get older they also tend to consume less dairy products and as a result, what with doctors telling patients to lower sald intake (and thus whatever iodine is added to salt) iodine deficiency is common. Over 40% of Canadians over age 60 are iodine deficient. Hence the most commonly filled prescription in this country is Synthroid.

      So it's worth to check your iodine intake (and selenium) from dietary sources.

      Delete
    7. Yes let's talk about aspirin, or rather salicylic acid, and its natural sources in foods. My favourite topic!

      Here a text to start with:

      Natural salicylates: foods, functions and disease prevention. (2011)

      "Salicylic acid and related compounds are produced by plants as part of their defence systems against pathogen attack and environmental stress. First identified in myrtle and willow, the medical use of salicylate-rich preparations as anti-inflammatory and antipyretic treatments may date back to the third millennium BC. It is now known that salicylates are widely distributed throughout the plant kingdom, and they are therefore present in plant products of dietary relevance. In the UK, major food sources are tomato-based sauces, fruit and fruit juice, tea, wine, and herbs and spices. In mammalian cells, salicylic acid demonstrates several bioactivities that are potentially disease-preventative, including the inhibition of production of potentially neoplastic prostaglandins, which arise from the COX-2 mediated catalysis of arachidonic acid. Moreover, it appears to be readily absorbed from the food matrix. This has led some to suggestions that the recognised effects of consuming fruit and vegetables on lowering the risk of several diseases may be due, in part, to salicylates in plant-based foods. However, published estimates of daily salicylic acid intake vary markedly, ranging from 0.4 to 200 mg day(-1), so it is unclear whether the Western diet can provide sufficient salicylates to exert a disease-preventative activity. Some ethnic cuisines that are associated with lowered disease risk may contain considerably more salicylic acid than is obtainable from a Western diet. However known protective effects of acetylsalicylic acid (Aspirin™) may have lead to an over-emphasis on the importance of dietary salicylates compared with other bioactive plant phenolics in the diet."

      Delete
    8. Eating your veggies might be as good as taking low dose aspirin. Thanks Gemma!

      http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=6&fid=814640&jid=PNS&volumeId=65&issueId=01&aid=814636&bodyId=&membershipNumber=&societyETOCSession=&fulltextType=MR&fileId=S0029665106000115


      Salicylic acid has anti-inflammatory and anti-neoplastic properties, is found in a wide range of fruit, vegetables, herbs and spices, and is absorbed from the food matrix into the circulation of human subjects. It has previously been unclear whether there is sufficient salicylate in foods to contribute to the recognised beneficial effects of a plant-based diet. Janssen et al. (1996) have concluded that the amounts of bio-available salicylates in a ‘normal’ diet are too low to affect disease risk. There is certainly great variability in the reported salicylate contents of foods, which may reflect varietal, environmental and analytical differences between studies. However, serum and urinary concentrations of salicylic and salicyluric acids respectively are greater in vegetarians than in non-vegetarians, and overlap with those for individuals consuming ≤150 mg aspirin/d (Blacklock et al. 2001; Lawrence et al. 2003). Serum concentrations of salicylic acid for vegetarians can be >2000 nmol/ml (Paterson & Lawrence, 2001).This finding suggests that potentially-preventative levels could be achieved by eating salicylic acid-rich foods, particularly as concentrations as low as 100 nmol/ml can inhibit the transcription of PHGS-2, an enzyme implicated in colon cancer pathogenesis.

      Delete
    9. Or, salicylic acid is a red herring. Why must we focus in on one tiny component of the diet, magic bullet style?

      Delete
    10. I just like how veggies seem to be the answer for everything. I should've mentioned above that spices are also good sources and a bowl of vindaloo might be a fantastic source. Also veggies that have had to fight harder (organic) seem to be higher than those grown is less challenging conditions. That's probably true for a lot of things.

      Delete
    11. Wilbur, don't be fooled into thinking that 'organic' means the vegetable has to fight harder, that's a crock. The organic market gardens coddle their veggies, they just use "less harmful" sprays and fertilizers.

      This brings up a point I wish everyone would come to understand. Paul Stamets, the fungi guy, has pretty much shown us that nature is not a battle ground, in fact it is all about co-operation. The mycellium in healthy soil spread nutrients and moisture around as needed.

      Now, in a weed-free garden, the gardener does a lot of battling. But the weeds themselves are good for the soil, and therefore good for the carrots (for example). Insects actually attack *over-fertilized* plants because they threaten the health of the larger eco-system. If the soil is continuously disturbed by fertilizing and weeding, the mycellium are practically non-existent.

      All of this is an exact parallel to what we're learning here about gut health. We can have overgrowths of one thing or another and think we need to kill it off, when in fact what we have to do is encourage the growth of other microbes so that it will all find its own sweet spot.

      In a healthy garden, there comes a time when it is no longer necessary to manure or even do much weeding (and most of the weeds are edible anyway), just as with a healthy gut, no more supplementary intervention is necessary.

      So - I would put the carrots that I grow in amongst my nettles and dandelions up against an "organic" carrot any day, and I bet mine would have a superior nutrient profile. I feel absolutely confident about licking my fingers after working in that soil, but I always wash "organic" produce thoroughly. The rules of what they are allowed to use on the soil to fertilize the plants and kill kill kill those bugs and weeds do not give me much confidence that they are all that safe "lightly rinsed" as Art suggests.

      Delete
    12. "Or, salicylic acid is a red herring. Why must we focus in on one tiny component of the diet, magic bullet style? "

      Where's the problem? I like to believe that not only science geeks would appreciate to discuss yet another wonderful example of shared signalling (plants x animals). In this case, a very basic signalling compound, a plant hormone, working via many interesting ways.

      Delete
    13. Wildcucumber, I just repeated what the article said! I am agnostic about organic except in a few circumstances. Potatoes being one. Most nonorganic potatoes are dead; organic can still grow.

      I'd bet your carrots are a lot healthier too. Stores can't sell blemished or irregular looking produce, so both organic and nonorganic have to be "perfect." I guess the only way that can be done on a massive scale is to make sure the veggies have a carefree life, no stresses. But then you're left with tasteless and less nutritious product because it doesn't face the normal stresses.

      I haven't seen it in a while, but Hugh some-long-name of the River Cottage Veg cooking TV show in Britain had an episode on tasty vs pretty carrots. There was a local competition, and the prize winning carrots were all pretty but tasteless. He got a new category for tastiest carrot, where the ugly could shine.

      Cooperation is possible on a battleground. Alliances are based on this. Defense is still important inve a weakness in one can bring down the whole alliance.

      Delete
    14. Wilbur, back in 1995 I had some potatoes (non organic) that were sprouting. So I cut up the 'sprouts' and planted them in a half barrel planter. Lots and lots of little spuds resulted. So they weren't 'dead'. Where do you get this from?

      All potatoes, organic or not, HAVE to be pesticided, herbicided and fungicided because the 'pests' keep outwitting the chemicals. Potatoes are probably the most chemically polluted. If you grow them yourself, like I did, (luck), then they are definitely free from 'drugs'. But when farmers are growing potatoes in a field, it's monoculture and susceptible to all sorts of stuff.

      Chances are, if I would have tried to grow potatoes in the same soil in the half barrel the following year, there would have been a problem. Just like how I grew tomatoes in containers. First year they were fabulous. The next year they got blossom end rot.

      Delete
    15. Apparently Michael Pollan has written about this. Here is the U.S., a chemical is sprayed on the potatoes near harvest time to kill the plant. It makes the harvesting more efficient. It has the added "advantage" of preventing sprouting. I can keep nonorganic potatoes on my counter for months without them sprouting. Organic potatoes, which cannot have this chemical, sprout within a few days. I've not read the Michael Pollan book, but I can attest to the consequences.

      Delete
    16. We were discussing in class last week about organic produce. I think it is well worth the extra price and hope more people start demanding organic.

      Here's a fact sheet: http://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Labeling%20Organic%20Products%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

      It may not be as good as homegrown, but the organic movement is designed with benefiting soil in mind as well as chemical free foods.

      Meal for meal, there is probably little benefit in organic over conventional over homegrown, but on a larger scale, supporting commercial organic products is much better for everyone than supporting conventional/chemical agriculture.

      There is a big stink right now, a law is about to be passed that says GMO products do not require a label. I say 'so what?' All organic food must be non-GMO, so if you do not want GMO...get organic.

      re: Potatoes - most commercial potatoes treated with antifungals, insecticides, and sprout inhibitors. All nasty stuff. And most likely soaks into the potato. USDA says "Generally Safe". I have not bought a potato in years, grow my own. Easy to do. If I had to buy potatoes, you can bet I would buy organic first choice. If I bought regular I would peel them well.

      And again. One meal of potatoes would not show anything foul in a test lab. It's the additive effects I worry about. I eat a lot of veggies, I want the best I can afford.

      Cooking and gut microbes can mitigate a lot of problems in the food supply, but, hey, why risk it?

      Delete
    17. If that chemical is the 'thing' then PEI potatoes are sprayed too. I was watching how they are dug up and processed for sale. There was no green stuff on the ground at all. Not even wilted green stuff. Maybe they cut off the green stuff first? Confusing.

      I cooked a few little red potatoes today. They were in the crisper in a bag since May. True enough, they didn't sprout. One of them was rather like a raisin. Shriveled.

      Delete
    18. risk: potato, organic https://www.foodsentry.org/food-risk-ratings/
      potato, non-organic https://www.foodsentry.org/food-risk-ratings/

      Go at it peeps.

      I ain't gonna pay more than $2.49 for a 10 pound bag of Ontario spuds. Uh uh. American spuds are WAAAY more expensive. And I aint' gonna pay $6 for 5 pounds of organic spuds. I'm thoroughly polluted anyway. Gotta pick your fights in life.

      I bought curry leaves today. Cheap. 99 cents per bag. Dominican Republic, not India.........well, this website says they can have too much insecticide. I soak them in cold water for half and hour, swish, swish, a use a salad spinner. Hope that helps.

      Dominican is growing a LOT of Asian vegetables. Easier to import from there than India. And who says India is clean?

      Delete
    19. Hm, interesting: https://www.foodsentry.org/import-alerts/page/3/

      Delete
    20. The thing I love about growing potatoes is that they actually improve the soil. We were working with former lawn here, and the first year, in early spring, I just raked off the grass, dumped the contents of my composter on the ground (not entirely rotted, I might add). I put the seed potatoes on the soil, covered with straw, walked away. Added straw as they grew instead of hilling, seeing as how there was no soil to hill with anyway :-). Well hot damn but when we harvested those potatoes the soil was just beautiful.
      I do move my potato crop around, but every year one gets left behind and I get a volunteer plant. I've never (touch wood) seen blight on the volunteers or the ones I plant. Companion planting/polycultures really help a lot to keep everything healthy. It can be done on a fairly large scale too.

      So hey, why not go one better than organic? Support your local polyculturist!

      Delete
    21. Become your own polyculturist! Okay, field trip to Christine's patch.

      Actually you should do a more detailed video of where you stash you crops. And why. Chirstine's garden is a wild world of wonder.

      Delete
    22. Yeah, well, that wild world of wonder has some draw backs. For a while there I couldn't find the garlic because the sunchokes kinda got out of control.

      Delete
    23. Wildcucumber, I have an allotment and have been organic for over 30 years. You said (in another comment) :

      or even do much weeding (and most of the weeds are edible anyway), just as with a healthy gut, no more supplementary intervention is necessary.

      Well, in my garden the weeds are getting worser every year. They seem to be overtaking us. Not only me, but other allotment owners are complaining about it as well (all organic). Still I refuse to use weed killer.

      Your other comment about using straw, is a good point, which I will use next year. I grow my own potatoes every year, and rotate them as much as possible, in the same bed again after 4 years. A 7 year rotation would be better. I keep the smallest potatoes in the vegetable draw at the bottom of the fridge and they stay there nicely and only start to sprount in about February March when it is time to plant them next year. In fact, they let me know it is time to get the gardening gloves out!

      So year on year I don't need to buy seedling potatoes. Fully organic.

      Jo tB

      Delete
    24. Jo - weeds are great soil indicators. They'll tell you what kind of an imbalance you may have that's bringing them in. Remember, plants are always where they are for a reason. They might be breaking up hard pan soil and bringing nutrients to the surface, (the deep rooted guys), shielding bare soil to keep moisture in (flat leaved things like plantago spp.) or soaking up excess fertilizer (loosestrife) etc. You'd have to figure out what your specific weeds are telling you. And find out if any are medicinal or edible!

      Straw is a great saver of soil moisture as well as keeping weeds down. I only have to water seedlings, then nothing for the rest of the year as I mulch nearly all my veg. Just make sure it is straw, not hay!! I no longer have a compost pile either, I just chop my scraps and tuck them under the mulch, where they break down in situ. Chopped weeds, soaked, make excellent fertilizer tea.

      That's great about your perpetual potatoes, our winters are too long, mine are dust by the time we can plant in June. Do you save your other seeds too?

      Delete
    25. Well, I may not grow my own potatoes. But I made some great tasting kefir cheese from my homegrown kefir. Taste like blue cheese without the blue.
      http://phickle.com/?s=kefir+cheese

      Delete
    26. Navillus - your site has some interesting recipes.
      What has been your experience with Kefir and do you consume it most days. I tried it years ago but didn't realise the "die off" was actually me reacting to milk. I'm much better with dairy now (though still only really have limited quantities) so am thinking about Kefir again. I know there's water Kefir but by all accounts the flora from it are not as diverse.
      Be interested to know your perceived benefits (and any negatives) from Kefir and what you were like previously
      Cheers

      Delete
    27. Rob - I have Rheumatoid Arthritis, so I try to get as much fermented goods into my system. For years I made my kefir with coconut milk. The grains stayed the brownish color that they arrived as. They multiplied but the grains were tiny and never became the "cauliflower" texture. 8 months ago, I decided to grow them in just milk. I use grass fed cow"s milk that has not been homogenized but is pasturized. When I can't get that I just use regular organic milk. I drink kefir everyday with blueberries and PS along with bran and add supplemental D3. To me I don't feel I have leaky gut but I still have issues with my RA. I have so much kefir, that I wash my face and my body with it vs soap.:) If I have a recipe that calls for yogurt I will use kefir or I make my oatmeal with half kefir and half coconut milk. I am not sure I can tell if I have any negatives or positives for that matter, as I do a whole lot of things. I was using (2 years ago) low dosage antibiotics (AP) for my RA and used kefir along with other probiotics and ferments to help my gut along. So, I am not sure after this long dissertation I was any help answering your questions. But...the Phickle website is a great ferment site. I got started with my fermentation with Amanda's site and Sandor Katz's book.

      Delete
    28. Navillus - thanks for the reply. I like to see from what perspective people have tried whichever strategy.
      I must admit I have mixed feelings on milk - in relation to the posts on linking milk to auto immune conditions, though I think it appeared to point to lactose as the issue.
      Your site looks good - I'll have snoop!
      Cheers

      Delete
    29. Rob,I love Kefir and have made it for years but just lately found it caused bloating.Stopping kefir cut it down somewhat.I seem to have a problem with fats so am going to try semi skimmed goats milk.You could try fermenting the kefir for longer to use up more lactose,it will just get more sour tasting. Kind of like fermenting yohurt for 24 hour as in the SCD diet.

      Delete
    30. Thanks Dave - I've got multiple things to try, but once I think I reach a plateau on each new intervention I like to try something else which is considered beneficial. I think goats milk 2 day ferment will be trialled!

      Delete
  10. hey guys im curious did anyone here have bad experience with Oats? like headache? stiff neck stuffy nose etc? like this food is no good for u

    especially if you dealt with Psoriatic Arthritis and the like
    it seems to worsen my symptoms but ill test again
    thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've been experimenting with different kinds of oaty goodness (rolled, groats, bran) plus berries, and a Wilbur-esque blend. I also have psoriasis. Just regular P, not PA. I definitely experienced a flare in my more reactive areas, but I seem to be pushing through it. I'll update if I really start to clear.
      Not quite what you're asking, but it's my N=1.

      Delete
    2. Hi!

      Oat bran gives me joint and lower back pain :( And stuffy nose too.

      Delete
  11. Gemma said: "I like to believe that not only science geeks would appreciate to discuss yet another wonderful example of shared signalling (plants x animals)"

    Blog post, coming up!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Gemma and Wild Cucumber,

    I agree with both of you. Talking about aspirin as a signaling molecule is fascinating but on the other hand taking a daily signaling molecule like a b-complex vitamin is not usually endorsed on sites like this. So, what is the difference between taking aspirin and a b-complex or any other signaling molecule that has been isolated?

    SL

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. SL

      Basically you are asking what is the difference between aspirin and a b-complex? I'm afraid I do not get your question. Probably my English.

      Delete
  13. I've just come across this novel post on fiber.

    "No gas, no gain"
    http://preventionnutrition.com/2014/11/27/no-gas-no-gain/

    Jo tB

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Love it!

      "Urgent reappraisal of farting as a social stigma is required as one way or another if you want avoid diabetes you takes your choice— gastric bypass surgery or up your fibre but either way reliably avoiding the indiscretion of letting one rip at an embarrassing moment is not an option."

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    2. What about all the gas recyclers in the gut? The methane producers and the methane consumers? Etc.

      If you overload your gas consumers, then yeah, you fart a lot. Even Richard was farting to beat the band when he consumed a lot of potato starch. Then it subsided.

      Gastric bypass surgery is rather extreme.

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  14. I just found a brilliant comment in another post I just read:

    gut microbiome may look like (in fact it would soon look like) a "ghetto" full of unwanted bacterial tenants not paying their rent in form of healthy SCFA.

    http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2013/02/gut-bacteria-modulation-ramp-up-your.html

    Jo tB

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  15. Roger,

    I am just now reading these comments andhave not even finished them but want to second the suggestion of Wilbur's to look into. Lyme. These are fairly common Lyme symptoms: "pain all the time, have weird neurological symptoms like burning and tingling, brain fog is still bad, ------. The pain is especially bad around the back of my neck and seems to radiate down my arms. "

    It may not be the only thing going on, but do investigate further. Most of the Lyme tests are pretty unreliable. My test came back negative, but my doc said the symptoms I had meant he was going to treat no matter what they said. Of course all he had to offer was a course of Doxy so instead I have been taking herbs and felling much improved

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    1. P.S. Sorry for putting this all the way down here, but could not get it to insert in your thread.

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    2. Elliebelly, I have the same issue with comments sometimes on my iPad. I find that closing Safari and restarting it fixes the problem.

      I had a dog that tested positive for Lyme. As I understand things, Lyme never goes away (although the symptoms can), and a good test would subsequently identify it every time. I'm not sure why, but my dog got tested for it every year. About half the tests said she didn't have it. My vet said those were BS results and common. "She has it, and just watch for her to have symptoms." Her symptoms were joint pain and lack of energy.

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    3. http://greendragonbotanicals.com/products/lyme-protocols/

      These are the herbs I take

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    4. Thanks Wilbur, will try that next time cause it is my iPad that I am using.

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  16. I am posting this same comment on both Vegetable Pharm and Free the Animal. I would like to thank both Tim and Richard for their efforts to pass along information on the microbiome and how it affects our health. I began studying the gut flora on my own, and that is how I ran across the both of you. I now check your sites daily, and l have learned so much from each of you. (By the way, I am eagerly awaiting the book! Can't wait to read it.)

    I am currently researching the gut in order to fix some of my own health problems. This weekend I was able to have a short visit with a cousin whom I rarely see. He was telling me of his wife's situation. I will make a long story short by simply saying that over the last few months she has been having episodes where she suddenly appears drunk without having consumed alcohol of any sort. Her speech is slurred, and she basically has to go to bed for about three days and sleep it off. He has videoed her to show her what the episodes are like, and she is appalled! She lives in a major medical center, and has seen many doctors. They sent her to Mayo clinic. A team of doctors there did a battery of tests on her, and finally said they had no idea what was wrong and could not help her. Back home she goes, with the episodes becoming more frequent. It is now happening for three days every two weeks. They are discouraged and have no idea what to do. As my cousin is telling me this, the dots start connecting in my head. Her body must be producing alcohol...alcohol is produced by fermentation...fermentation happens in the gut. So I quickly grab my phone and do a google search - dysbiosis makes person appear to be drunk. There is the answer. Story after story of people with the same symptoms. It is called Auto Brewery Syndrome, or Gut Fermentation Syndrome. My cousin can't believe they now have an answer, after doctors had no clue. They are now searching for an informed doctor to help them as they work to get her life back.

    Just wanted to say thanks and to give you guys some encouragement. The work that you are doing matters. It is important. Actually, it is vital. Please don't stop sharing what you learn!

    Joni

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    Replies
    1. I've heard of auto-brewery syndrome, not sure what the right course of action is. It's a yeast problem, so doc will want to attempt to eradicate all yeast with antifungals, I'll bet.

      I'll keep on passing this stuff on, but please do not confuse that with thinking that I have all the answers! I don't.

      Let us know what happens with your cousin.

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    2. I know that you don't have all the answers. Did not mean to imply that you did. No one does. We are all looking, researching, learning. I was simply trying to thank you for passing along what you know. It has been helpful to me, and certainly now to my cousin. Posted the details in case it might help someone else who may be on a similar journey.

      Joni

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    3. Joni, why not put her on an all fish diet for a couple of weeks? I don't mean tilapia. What I mean is fatty fish. Then introduce vegetables but no fruit. Then meat and only then something like potatoes which may cause a problem or may not. If I were that sick, I'd try just about anything. But fish doesn't ferment to alcohol. It leaves no significant residue in the digestive tract. I know that all this fibre business is good but sometimes a person needs to give it all a rest.

      Back when the H1N1 virus was going around, I decided, not for my sake, but my elderly patients' sakes to get the vaccine. Two weeks later I was having swollen joints in my fingers and majorly bad bowel issues. I endured for a few more weeks and went to the doctor, who, of course, told me it's not the vaccine. Whatever. I had to figure things out for myself. And I went on an all fish diet for two weeks. Nothing else. No dairy no veg no starch no fruit. Then I introduced foods and eventually was okay. I won't even shock you with the truly horrifying 'productions'.

      Eating nothing but fish (mackerel, stickleback, tuna etc) is kind of limiting but it really but it gives the guts a rest. I know, Gemma is going to slap me upside the head but hey, I'm a big girl.

      The gluten free afterwards. Eliminate that as well because it can have weird effects on the gut motility.

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    4. Thanks for those suggestions. I did not know that about fish. She has a hard road ahead of her, for sure. I don't even know how open she is to thinking outside the box. She works at a cancer treatment center! I was most shocked that no one had thought of the gut in her case. Not one medical professional. I know that doctors are not taught this. No one told me about it, either. I had to start digging for my own answers. Learning from others on the internet. Reading insatiably. Now I can't look at any medical problem without thinking of the gut first. I truly hope that there is a shift in the not too distant future in our medical system. So much suffering, and so much help and information becoming available. The sharing of this information with each other is so important.

      Joni

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    5. Joni, I thought of the all fish diet after reading Steffanson's experience living with the Inuit. One winter they had nothing to eat but fish. And I thought, hey, fish is non-inflammatory, on many levels. And it's a good source of protein and fat, so no chance of getting a stupid deficient diet while living on it. Stefansson lived on steelhead trout for a whole winter. Some of it was rotten, some was eaten raw, some cooked. No health problems resulted. So, what the heck. If that's thinking outside the box, then so be it. But it was really necessary given what was going on at the time. The finger joints stopped being swollen and the gut normalized.

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    6. Joni

      I am also curious what the doctor's advice would be. Strong antifungals? Probably not so smart.
      The approach must be more complex. What does your cousin normally eat and such...?

      Gabriella

      Why should I slap you? The fish advice sounds good. Do not forget the Kamtschadales... awaiting spring to eat raw fish and garlic again, to get rid of winter scurvy (hey, alcohol --> scurvy).

      Narrative of a Pedestrian Journey Through Russia and Siberian Tartary: From the Frontiers of China to the Frozen Sea and Kamtchatka (1824)

      "I always ate of raw fish, as well from choice, as from a wish to conform to the manners and customs of the natives, confident that time and experience must have initiated them into a knowledge of what is best for their climate.

      The scurvy rages during winter with the poorer and consequently with the greater, proportion of the inhabitants of the Kolyma, because they, the poorer sort, cannot afford to eat raw fish, it being an article of luxury. It is true, that a most prodigious quantity of fish is caught on the banks of the Kolyma, but it does not follow that such a quantity is eaten raw ; indeed it is only a very small proportion that can be so consumed, and that quantity is naturally bought up and retained by the more wealthy part of the community."

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    7. Gemma, yes I've read this too in the past. Seems to me it's a good idea. Maybe this is the ultimate detox diet. ;) Not the fruit juice baloney. Sashimi and steamed fish. No rice. It totally reduces bowel movement size but does not result in constipation or hard to pass. What ends up is just dead cells and whatever still live in the gut. It's only an intervention, so two weeks. As Tim noticed, it doesn't take long to change up the microbiome.

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    8. Gabriella,

      Could you expand a little on how gluten free effects gut motility? I've not read that before. Thanks.

      SL

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    9. SL, it depends on the person. For a lot of people, I would assume it does nothing. For me, it has the same effect as if I would taking codeine: constipates. Disturbs normal peristalsis, results in bloating. It IS dose dependent. And must be accompanied by lots of vegetation to keep fecal matter from getting hard. Which indicates, slowing of transit time due to the gluten.

      Some people, who have coeliac can get multiple bowel movements per day (like 4 or 5) when they eat gluten. Or they can get constipation from it. This is why Coeliac can be tricky to notice prior to definitive diagnosis.

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  17. Gemma,

    She eats typical SAD.

    Joni

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    1. Typical SAD? Good luck. I suggest she started to be "open to thinking outside the box." High time.

      Just a quick question, as you did not say this - was the alcohol syndrome confirmed by tests etc? Or is it only your guess?

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    2. I was thinking about this...

      Yeast converts sugar to alcohol, it cannot convert starch to alcohol. Starch must be heated or otherwise converted to sugar before yeast can utilize it.

      Maybe the diet does not need to be super-restrictive of all carbs, just sugars easily converted to alcohol, ie. glucose, fructose, sucrose.

      I remember another reader who had some strange overgrowths and also a very strong urge to continually eat sugary foods, as if the microbes were creating the desire to fuel their existence.

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    3. Come on Tim. Reset diet, no sugars for 2 weeks. It will not kill her.

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    4. "As if the microbes were creating the desire to fuel their existence."

      http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/your-gut-bacteria-want-you-to-eat-a-cupcake/378702/

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    5. It is our educated guess based on her symptoms and how her symptoms match the descriptions exactly. She hopefully will see a doctor this week for stool tests. i don't know what else it could be. They have tested everything else except her stool Go figure. I have put the information in their hands. It is up to them what they do with it. I have to tread carefullw in offering advice in this situation. If they ask for more help and information, I will offer support any way I can.

      Joni

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    6. Wilbur, I like it !

      these bacteria might be a little too big for their britches, bossing their hosts around

      Jo tB

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    7. Now you know.

      "Individuals who are 'chocolate desiring' have different microbial metabolites in their urine than 'chocolate indifferent' individuals."

      They may do this by inducing cravings: “Individuals who are “chocolate desiring” have different microbial metabolites in their urine than “chocolate indifferent” individuals, despite eating identical diets,” the study says. Or, they may influence people’s moods—crying in infants with colic has been linked to changes in the gut microbiome. And one thing parents do to stop their babies’ crying is feed them.

      The article suggests some potential mechanisms by which the bacterias exert their influence: They may change the expression of taste receptors, making certain foods taste better; they may release hunger-inducing hormones; or they may manipulate the vagus nerve (which connects the stomach to the brain) to control their hosts’ eating behavior.

      And different bacteria want people to eat different things—some crave sugar, some crave fat. Some microbes found in people in Japan are especially good at digesting seaweed.

      Humans, of course, are not entirely powerless against the prodding influence of our gut flora. The relationship works both ways—the food someone chooses to eat influences their microbiome. And probiotics can change gut populations too. Certain probiotics have been shown to reduce fat mass or improve mood.

      But microbes’ potential influence on cravings does offer a convenient excuse—the next time you’re trying to convince your friends to order a pizza, try shouting “My gut bacteria demand tribute!” and see where that gets you.

      http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/your-gut-bacteria-want-you-to-eat-a-cupcake/378702/

      Jo tB

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    8. Jo, that figures. I'm totally not interested in chocolate. Never considered the it's the gutbugs to blame. I can't understand how it is that people eat this stuff. Now, watermelon.... bring it on. A good watermelon tastes way better than any piece of chocolate, any day.

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  18. While visiting an organic market yesterday (Sunday, called Pure Market) Ii came across a stand where they were promoting edible (sweet) white lupines. I tasted some spread on a cracker and I was immediately hooked. I can buy the seeds to use as a spread or in a smoothie. I think it will become the new superfood.

    It is called Lupinus albus cultivar 'energy' for those of you who would like to grow it yourself.

    The nutrition facts are: (per 100 grams)
    Energy: 313 kcal
    Protein 36.2 grams
    fiber 40.4 grams
    Fat 9.7 grams.

    I have found a site in Canada that promotes the white lupin as well.

    http://rootcellarsrock.ca/2012/12/sweet-edible-lupins-try-them-in-your-garden/

    Another superfood/resistant starch to add to our arsenal?!?

    Jo tB

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    1. Jo - great link, thank you! We used to get those lupins by the jar at a Portuguese bakery when we lived in the city. Addictive!

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    2. Available as a flour on Amazon as well.

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  19. The good bacteria inhabiting the colon play an important role when it comes to combating pathogens that enter the body.

    In the absence of these beneficial bacteria, harmful microorganisms will start to grow and multiply. Needless to say, this growth will have a profound negative impact on health.

    Taking a good probiotic supplement like Probiotics America is essential for maintaining the balance of the intestinal tract. This way, you’ll enjoy a much stronger immune response.

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  20. Several small studies examine the relationship between the presence of beneficial bacteria in the gut and maintaining a healthy weight. Researchers have found out that the gut flora of obese and overweight individuals is different from the one of people having a healthy weight.

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