Saturday, March 21, 2015

Let's talk honey, honey

Based on popular demand - here another song - didn't Tim say "keep them coming"?

I'm afraid that was it, dear friends, my time here is over. Where is any science here? Where?

Hopefully I will be forgiven because it is Sunday :-)


  1. Because it is Sunday and sugar is much easier to rhyme than monosacchrides:

  2. Sunday is a cheat day anyway, sugar, sugar :-)

    I hoped to finally implicate Nick Lane and instead I managed to bring only Sam, Bill, Harry and... dot dot dot.

  3. Oh, how funny! I just about spit out the big chunk of honeycomb I am eating for breakfast! Really.

    Nick Lane again? Hopefully you are planning a tell-all soon! Going to do it with music or just PubMed links?

    Thanks! You are forgiven. lol

    1. Mitochondria as heat dissipation machines?

      Probably Not.

      That's the name of Nick Lane's band where he plays the fiddle, lol

    2. I'm about 1 month away from getting my bees. Can't wait. Not looking forward to the inevitable stings, though!

    3. @Gemma,
      Ah Abba. But what did you mean: ' time here is over' ?

    4. @Stuart

      It was joke, meaning that Tim will kick me out of this blog :-)

    5. "Not looking forward to the inevitable stings, though!"

      Enjoy them. Supposedly they don't hurt as much when you expect them. And you build up tolerance too. The venom has been shown to have hypoglycemic effects, which is a nice natural counterbalance to all the honey you'll be eating :)

      Of course, honey can do that too! :)

      The venom is also anti-cancer:

      Probably lots of venom is not so great for a fetus, so this explains why prehistoric women, who were often pregnant, would have just let the men do the honey hunting.

      And, of course, bee venom can be good for arthritis (apitherapy).

      If the stinger is left behind in your skin, you can pull it out being careful not to discharge the remaining venom, and then stick the stinger into an arthritic joint to discharge the remainder.

      You lucky guy!

    6. "Not looking forward to the inevitable stings, though!"

      Life hurts! Get ready Tim, here this sting for you. (I hope it doesn't look like stalking, lol)

    7. "I'm afraid that was it, dear friends, my time here is over. Where is any science here? Where?"

      I see what you did snuck a bitter science pill in our spoonful of honey! Clever lady.

      So. Honey...Not evil sugar AND the stings are good for me? Why doesn't everyone who can keep bees?

      I'm planning a bigger blog as I get my hive set up, but the cost is not prohibitive, but not real cheap. Maybe $500 for everything you need for your first year. Most places have bee co-ops for extracting honey as the extraction machinery IS expensive.

      The alternative to extracting honey and bottling clear, liquid honey is to harvest the whole comb and eat the wax with the honey inside.

      The latter option is actually my entire reasoning behind wanting to keep bees. I want ALL the good stuff: honey, wax, propolis, pollen, bee bread, and wax cappings...and will gladly get stung to do so.

    8. Did you see that plastic bee hive that was super successful on kickstarter a month or so ago?
      Seemed a shame not to have all the wax, propolis etc. But I didn't look into it properly, so maybe there was a part which let the bees build and do their thing.
      Fresh honey and bee bread etc... you lucky thing!

    9. Andrea was the one that let the apiarist harvest honey from a tap on the side of the hive rather than having to remove the whole comb, uncap it and spin off the honey etc ? Less work for the bees I suppose. Maybe it meant that there was more honey produced.

  4. Thanks Gemma. ABBA was so much fun and joy. I have a vinyl record, ABBA Greatest Hits, still, that when my kids were little, we'd dance around the living room. (among other records, of course)... we had dance time every day. Before they could walk, I'd hold them and dance with them. As soon as they could stand they started to dance in their own cute little ways. Then they got into body suits, tights, tutus and dance slippers.... Every day they'd want to dress up so they could really dance up a storm.

    You brought back all these happy memories.

  5. From my Fave Beekeeping blog, with a cool video:

    Oxalic acid trickling

    Oxalic acid? What is that? Apparently it controls mites without using chemical pesticides. There may be more to this beekeeping stuff than I thought.

    And all for a couple jars of honey? Evil sugar.

  6. @Stuart - I can't remember where all the posts were about wheat dextrin and orafti, so I'm just going to post here.

    Thank you, thank you, for the nudge to get some Benefiber whilst we sort out the orafti. I got some the other day, and you and Wilbur were right - of course! It acts on a totally different part of the colon. Very irritable at the moment, but it's all good. :-)

    It seems that my mix has not had much, if any, of the right fibres for the distal end.
    So now I'm wondering if you two think that benefibre and orafti pretty much cover the distal part, or if there might be others that I might be missing and should be added in.
    Darn... you two have been talking about the distal part for a little while now, but it totally didn't really sink in!

  7. @Andrea.
    Glad you are trying the wheat dextrin. The truth is I haven't got a clue why orafti is so special, and dextrin less so. But they seem to be. I think somebody will have to swallow one of those gas data transmitter (to your smart phone no less) thingies that have just been developed. But maybe their special benefits as prebiotics will not be revealed by the gas the microbes eating them produce.
    I do tend to think Novartis chose wheat dextrin as their prebiotic fiber very shrewdly though. And wheat (and maize) dextrin in bulk are even cheaper than potato starch (about 3$ kg) Novartis just charge a huge premium by putting it in a cute jar and calling it dietary fiber.
    Did you find some of the discounted stuff?


    1. I got mine at Chemist Warehouse. A lot more than $3 a kilo! It's a 730g tub and I think cost around $22.
      Bulk really is the way to go.
      Also, I'm doing the tooth mousse. I like it alot. Got blobs off white stuff around my mouth! Too early to tell, but I know it's good.

    2. Andrea , you don't need much of the recaldent to work its remineralization magic. Remember it's a very small tube and it isn't cheap. They recommend a 'pea' size. I use about a third of that. The trick is to leave it in your mouth for as long as you can. That's why it's a good idea to spit it out and NOT rinse your mouth as you hit the sack. But even before spitting it out I swish with it after brushing for about 20 minutes. Just like with oil pulling. The recaldent ions will migrate through your saliva to your tooth enamel.

    3. Ok. I've probably been over-generous. Wanted to get every little bit of tooth! Will cut back.

    4. Why don't you guys try something for me: Chocolate toothpaste. Okay, it's not chocolate. Tastes like mint.

      No fluoride in it. Supposed to make big mineral crystals in enamel.

      I used to carry this recaldent stuff but ended up throwing it out. Maybe I wasn't totally convinced of its efficacy. It was wholesale $7 per tube. Patients didn't really go for it.

  8. Tim/Gemma/GabKad etc.

    Off topic but what do you all think about this? I couldn't find any scholar articles but this is very exciting because I like both rice and coconut oil.

    Per this study, cooking rice with a little bit of coconut oil added to the water AND refrigerating it for 12 hours increases the RS content tremendously.

    1. I sent that to Tim yesterday.

      Actually rice cooked with some coconut milk tastes great. Depends on how fat you want to become. ;) Sticking to potatoes here for now.

    2. Gabriella
      Theodent was apparently released a few years ago. The litmus test for whether it is any good is that it quickly becomes widely available. You can get recaldent online and from all dentists. It's widely researched and well understood to work and work well. A massive amount is now sold worldwide because people vote with their hip pocket. If something works, they buy it . And it's not cheap.
      Theodent is also expensive, but the dentists I've spoken to say that 'Rennou' (the active ingredient) is basically ineffective at remineralizing either enamel or dentine (if your enamel is gone)..
      Finally if anything is any good on the market, it always very quickly shows up on ebay. Searching theodent on the Australian ebay returned zero results. I think it appears to be a network marketing scam. The Australian operation of which is headed by a model with no dentistry qualifications whatsoever.Cute packaging though. And 'chocolate' does sell, I have to admit.
      Just sayin

    3. I see two things going on in that rice study...formation of RS3 through cooling, and interrupting starch digestion by adding fat to the meal. The coconut oil is not increasing the RS.

    4. I have always cooked rice with a big lump of coconut cream in it.Got used to it when living with Jamaicans.Tastes great.

  9. @Stuart

    "I always wondered whether saccharin was getting an undeservedly bad rap"

    Come on, man. Do you really believe that man-made product saccharin (1,2-benzisothiazol-3(2H)-one, 1,1-dioxide) is safe to ingest on a daily basis, just because it can help killing cancer cells?

    1. @ Gemma.
      That I do actually. It's been around longer than any of the other non nutritive sweeteners ( the artificial ones anyway) and despite the earnest attempts of the sugar lobby and the ' natural is better' crowd, has never been shown to be other than completely harmless - for eighty years..
      That using chemical names of things trick is below you anyway Gemma. I always remember somebody chastising me for consuming so much dihydrogen monoxide..
      I just thought it was really interesting that it might actually have other benefits than sparing teeth and pancreases (for starters) the ravages of sugar. I find it synergizes wonderfully with stevia. You use less of both for the same sweetness.
      But I do admit that there are indeed some people (including you apparently) who tolerate sugar in moderation. But there are so many others who have done so much damage to their metabolisms by years of consuming it in excess (in my case sweet modern fruit) that it will forever be a dangerous metabolic poison, in any amount.
      And I find that stevia on its own, is 'missing' something. that saccharin provides.

    2. @Stuart

      Just seeing the azole structure in saccharine molecule gives us a clue that it definitely has an effect on the microbiome. That's why I posted its chemical name.

      "And I find that stevia on its own, is 'missing' something. that saccharin provides."

      No doubt. Good luck to you.

    3. Why is it that for me stevia tastes yukky? I tried it years ago when it became all the rage. Gross. Threw it out.

      I use one teaspoon of sucralose in each of my two cups of tea in the morning. That's it for non sugar sweeteners. I think my annual sugar consumption is probably around 1 cup. Maybe. Honey, even less. I don't think this quantity of sucralose has any adverse effect. I certainly wouldn't use it in baking (and anyway I don't bake.) I have concerns about the fact that 96% of it is excreted unaltered in the feces. Since bacteria in the bowel don't appear to be able to metabolize it, the sucralose goes unchanged into the environment.

    4. What a day.

      Sucralose, A Synthetic Organochlorine Sweetener: Overview of Biological Issues (2013)

      "Sucralose is a synthetic organochlorine sweetener (OC) that is a common ingredient in the world's food supply. Sucralose interacts with chemosensors in the alimentary tract that play a role in sweet taste sensation and hormone secretion. In rats, sucralose ingestion was shown to increase the expression of the efflux transporter P-glycoprotein (P-gp) and two cytochrome P-450 (CYP) isozymes in the intestine. P-gp and CYP are key components of the presystemic detoxification system involved in first-pass drug metabolism. The effect of sucralose on first-pass drug metabolism in humans, however, has not yet been determined. In rats, sucralose alters the microbial composition in the gastrointestinal tract (GIT), with relatively greater reduction in beneficial bacteria. Although early studies asserted that sucralose passes through the GIT unchanged, subsequent analysis suggested that some of the ingested sweetener is metabolized in the GIT, as indicated by multiple peaks found in thin-layer radiochromatographic profiles of methanolic fecal extracts after oral sucralose administration. The identity and safety profile of these putative sucralose metabolites are not known at this time. Sucralose and one of its hydrolysis products were found to be mutagenic at elevated concentrations in several testing methods. Cooking with sucralose at high temperatures was reported to generate chloropropanols, a potentially toxic class of compounds. Both human and rodent studies demonstrated that sucralose may alter glucose, insulin, and glucagon-like peptide 1 (GLP-1) levels. Taken together, these findings indicate that sucralose is not a biologically inert compound."

    5. " I have concerns about the fact that 96% of it is excreted unaltered in the feces. Since bacteria in the bowel don't appear to be able to metabolize it, the sucralose goes unchanged into the environment. "

      Metabolic Effects of Sucralose on Environmental Bacteria (2013)

      "Sucralose was developed as a low cost artificial sweetener that is nonmetabolizable in humans. Sucralose can withstand changes in pH and temperature and is not degraded by the wastewater treatment process. Since the molecule can withstand heat, acidification, and microbial degradation, it is accumulating in the environment and has been found in wastewater, estuaries, rivers, and the Gulf Stream. Environmental isolates were cultured in the presence of sucralose looking for potential sucralose metabolism or growth acceleration responses. Sucralose was found to be nonnutritive and demonstrated bacteriostatic effects on all six isolates. This growth inhibition was directly proportional to the concentration of sucralose exposure, and the amount of the growth inhibition appeared to be species-specific. The bacteriostatic effect may be due to a decrease in sucrose uptake by bacteria exposed to sucralose. We have determined that sucralose inhibits invertase and sucrose permease. These enzymes cannot catalyze hydrolysis or be effective in transmembrane transport of the sugar substitute. Current environmental concentrations should not have much of an effect on environmental bacteria since the bacteriostatic effect seems to be consecration based; however, as sucralose accumulates in the environment, we must consider it a contaminant, especially for microenvironments."

    6. @Gemma,
      That's just it. My microbiome just keeps getting better. Yet I eat a lot of saccharin. Doesn't seem to add up.

    7. Isn't salt an organochlorine?

    8. Touchy subject! I won't touch the pink, blue, or yellow packets of sweeteners, but do use Stevia (green pack). The Stevia I use has "Dextrose and Stevia Leaf Extract" as ingredients.

      I use about 3 packets a day in my coffee. I'm planning an experiment soon. I will make no changes to my diet except exchange the Stevia for honey and see what happens to my gut microbiome, or see what a report says, anyway.

      Over the years, I used to always use white sugar, then switched to Equal (Aspartame), then Splenda (Sucralose), and finally Stevia. I was also hooked on diet sodas for years, but now have not had one for years.

      My thoughts are that if you are looking to 'shake things up' in your life, examine the artificial components first and really try to expunge chemicals from your diet. I'm on a "emulsifier" hunt right now...I see Soy Lecithen in several of the things I have considered "minimally processed" and this stuff scares me more than artificial sweeteners.

      Artificial colors, flavors, sweeteners, and emulsifiers are in just about every SAD treat.

    9. Gemma, there you go. I figure at 2 teaspoons per day, it's pretty well zero impact in me as re: potential harm. And if no one consumed more than that per day, environmentally it would also be inconsequential. I'm sure there are people out there who DO bake with it. Gross me out.

      These rat studies are as if we'd be eating 8 cups of the stuff per day.

    10. @Gabriella / Stuart

      I could post even more papers raising even more concerns, but why bother? Your risk (or your microbiome's), not mine.

      I go with honey that has, as far as I know, a bit longer safety history than 80 years.

    11. Since the principal info on artificial sweeteners is dysbiosis-->diabetes (and related glucose metabolism issues), it's a silent, long term effect that you would not see coming until it hit you. That's a pretty potent argument to me. People addicted to large quantities of artificial sweeteners who clearly have metabolic syndrome body fat distribution are all to common, and now we have at least one part of picture WRT cause.

      Which isn't to say that small quantities will overwhelm the huge efforts anyone here is using to improve their gut bugs! But I stick to stevia, honey, maple syrup and occasional white sugar myself. I've got such a huge uphill battle to regain health, it just seems wisest. I've had borderline metabolic syndrome for years and a family history of type II - I don't have much room for error. (I have gone sweetener-free for long stretches at a time with no improvement in all my fatigue/hormone issues, so my policy for the past 20 years has been "sugar in treats, no hidden sugar in processed foods.")

      Mr. Heisenbug's post on how saccharine hits the microbiome:

      siting this study:

      which states:
      "Here we demonstrate that consumption of commonly used NAS formulations drives the development of glucose intolerance through induction of compositional and functional alterations to the intestinal microbiota. These NAS-mediated deleterious metabolic effects are abrogated by antibiotic treatment, and are fully transferrable to germ-free mice upon faecal transplantation of microbiota configurations from NAS-consuming mice, or of microbiota anaerobically incubated in the presence of NAS. We identify NAS-altered microbial metabolic pathways that are linked to host susceptibility to metabolic disease, and demonstrate similar NAS-induced dysbiosis and glucose intolerance in healthy human subjects. Collectively, our results link NAS consumption, dysbiosis and metabolic abnormalities, thereby calling for a reassessment of massive NAS usage."

    12. Stuart, salt is sodium chloride. Nothing 'organo' about it. Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen..... needed.

    13. Stuart, I have no fargin' clue about Theodent. That's the truth. I read their stuff is all. I have my qualms about a product that is supposed to revolutionize dentrifices because it remineralizes without fluoride or anything else. I've been in the snake oil infested business for decades now. Things come, things go.

      Back in the 70s there was a toothpaste made with sanguinaria extract. That was a dud too.

      Right now I'm doing the 'multicultural toothpaste experiment'. Using Korean toothpaste that contains salt. I've got Colgate with Miswak and also another one with Neem (bitter). The Miswak is okay from a subjective perspective. The salt toothpaste is interesting. Pine flavour.

    14. @Gabriella,
      I agree with you, Recaldent is so clearly not snake oil, whereas Theodent just seems to tick all the snake oil boxes.
      By the way, it is unwise to use salt to clean your teeth. Undissolved salt crystals are incredibly abrasive. You might as well clean your teeth with sand. A dissolved sall solution won't do you any harm though and probably some good. There are just so many other superior substances available, both traditional and pharmaceutical. Tree bark is one. Most ancestral cultures just use a twig to clean their teeth..
      A combination of a twig, oil pulling and Recaldent would probably cover all your dental bases.

    15. Stuart, one experiment at a time. I'm not concerned about remineralization since I don't consume foods that encourage plaque growth or are so acidic that enamel is getting dissovled.

      I was looking for charcoal toothpase but found none. I have charcoal capsules at home though. The stuff adsorbs toxins so may be okay. Not abrasive Just it's black. Doesn't have any flavour. Maybe I'll dab my toothpaste in charcoal powder after squishing some Koren toothpaste into it.

      Then 'nicest' toothpaste I've ever used was LogoDent Sage and salt and something else. It was lovely stuff just super expensive.

    16. Ooh that sage and salt sounds delicious. I can't abide sweet tasting toothpastes. Does anyone remember the clay toothpastes you could get in the health food stores back when they were really health food stores? They were kind of icky mouthfeel wise but I bet they were better for us. I keep telling myself I'll try the burnt toast crumb thing the pioneers used to do (essentially charcoal I suppose) but I haven't got around to it.

    17. wild, this one: (rosemary and sage)

      A little did go a long way but at the price they charge for it at the unhealth food store, I just couldn't justify purchasing it anymore.

    18. How about going the DIY route with just baking soda and coconut oil?

    19. @toothpaste adventurers,
      I used to use a japanese sea saltand charcoal (made from eggplants traditionally for some reason until I discovered that charcoal is also very abrasive. That's why it makes such a great metal polish.Your teeth do feel very clean though - what's left of them LOL.

    20. Well Stuart, unfortunately there are people alive today who had nothing else to brush with except charcoal. Them's were the bad old days.

      When I was watching a series on the Victorian Farm (Or was it Edwardian?), in those days the use of charcoal was common. Probably Victorian.

      Agree that salt and sodium bicarbonate if not formulated will be too abrasivie. Arm and Hammer Baking Soda tooth paste is quite low in abrasivity. Ironically Sensodyne is abrasive! So much for that, eh.

      By and large though, a person doesn't need to use toothpaste at all. And natural bristle brushes are much more highly effective than these stupid nylon things. Just it's easier and cheaper to make nylon brushes and natural bristle requires some care.

    21. hey guys since we are talking salt and toothpaste any of you checked out Redmond? they make something called EarthPaste and of course the sea salt which they claim to be real and no sodium chloride added


  10. Not really the right place to put it, but I thought the article was interresting enough to warrant placement. Cooking rice with coconut oil, and then refrigerating it to raise the resistant starch level is a novel way of looking at retrograded starchy.

    Jo tB

    1. That's fine, Jo tB - I think it's great that people are finally seeing that intentionally making "leftovers" is a good idea. I have been doing this for several years now. Cook big batches of starches and store in the fridge or freezer until ready to eat. Makes life much easier, actually.

      I think the coconut oil does not increase the RS, but helps to keep some of the starch undigested, so, same effect as RS. It's been talked about forever to eat fat with starches (ie. butter and sr cream on potatoes, rice fried in oil, beans and cheese) to lessen the glycemic impact. So cooling them to retrograde some RS is even better.

  11. I just came across this article posted in another blog.

    Jo TB

    1. Interesting article. But, please see the banner at the top of the blog before making any conclusions, lol.

      I don't believe for a second that lack of Treponema is the cause of modern disease.

      I will look for the full text of the underlying study, there is probably much more interesting stuff there than in the article.

    2. Ah! Full text here: Subsistence strategies in traditional societies distinguish gut microbiomes

      Nice paper from a purely scientific viewpoint. They don't make the leap the author of the Science Mag writer did. Just present the facts. I think it is clearly a case of diet, lifestyle, and sanitation that H-G types have different microbes and better health. Not so much a "missing ancestral core".

    3. Hear! Hear!

      Like seriously? Treponema? Thanks but no thanks. Not going to be eating raw antelope guts anytime soon.

    4. Here a nice cover up by Ed Yong:
      Surprises Emerge As More Hunter-Gatherer Microbiomes Come In

      "Regardless, these results throw up some interesting questions. Is the higher diversity of the hunter-gatherer microbiome down to the wider diets of their owners, or to a wider range of parasites? After all, Morton found that if the Cameroonians had a triple-bill of parasites, including a roundworm and a whipworm along with Entamoeba, their microbiomes were even more diverse. Diversity is generally seen as a good thing. Is it?

      Likewise, when other groups see high levels of Treponema in the Hadza and Matses, does that just reflect a higher burden of intestinal parasites? Is that what they’re inadvertently talking about when they say “ancestral”?

      We can only answer these questions by looking at the microbiomes of people from different regions around the world. That’s why studies of the Hadza, Matses, Yanomami, and Pygmies are important. But as results come in, we must be wary of concocting simple narratives to explain characteristics of hunter-gatherer microbes."

    5. P.S. Parasites are able to down-regulate their host immune response, so that they can eat and live peacefully on the host's account. It could be other microbes use this generosity, hence more diversity.

    6. Gemma, wasn't that why they were experimenting with (don't remember which type) of intestinal worms for Crohn's disease? Down regulate immune response.

      To my untrained eye, I would venture to speculate that it is the exposure to the diversity of everything in their environment why these people (Hadza etc.) have such a variety of all sorts of intestinal inhabitants. I agree with what you've cut and pasted above.

      The thing with the Hadza, studies of their parasite load showed an increase of pathogens when they went to live in 'town'. So possibly as you suggest, the microbes from living 'rough' and eating raw keep things in check.

    7. Gab, right - helminth therapy. Various species were tested, even by researchers themselves. Here a crazy Czech, lol:

      Scientist swallows tapeworm to prove intestinal parasites can be our friends

    8. @Gemma,
      That's really interesting. So do you think those pinworms that Gabriella remembered ruefully from being a 'grimy' child wouldn't have been a problem if she'd stayed grimy, but just eaten a lot more fermentable fiber. That even Hadza children get around 150g of fermentable fiber has always struck me as pretty significant. And 4 kg infants get 25g fermentable. It seems that what even Tim refers to as 'megadosing' fiber could be just doing the right thing by your microbiome.

    9. @Stuart

      I'm not sure if it is right to reduce the pinworm issue to "eating more fiber". Another, too simple narrative? :-)

    10. Fair enough. But if the parasite load increased in Hadza who went to live in the city then the fact that they were no longer consuming megadoses of fiber, both fermentable and non fermentable as well as a lot less dirt than when they lived ate slept on dirt floors without plates, furniture and eating utensils. Don't you think that the more our often squeamish western eye (note the huge volumes of sanitised SBO pills bought by people who just can't bring themselves to eat soil) cares to really look, the key to good health seems be consuming a lot of soil, fermentable and non fermentable fiber, as well as being exposed to natural sunshine. You said yourself that my covering of those bases would 'protect' me from the ghastly artificial sweeteners i'm poisoning myself with. Maybe those three things: dirt sunshine and copious quantities of the fiber menace really are the key to being able to avoid health practitioners. I just found the parasite load change when the Hadza stopped consuming dirt and megadoses of fiber interesting
      Gabriella was plagued by pinworms even though she was getting plenty of probiotics in the grime. Maybe if she'd also consumed a lot of both fermentable and non fermentable (a lot meaning the at 150 g that Hadza kids get) the pinworms wouldn't have been a problem.. The Hadza are all doing a Wilbur. Doesn't that tell you something? And they all drink out of baboon turd flavoured puddles like Jeff Leach. You would think they'd be crawling with parasites, wouldn't you?

    11. @Stuart

      "You said yourself that my covering of those bases would 'protect' me from the ghastly artificial sweeteners i'm poisoning myself with."

      Nice try. I have never said that. That's what you believe, and I only wished you luck. Enjoy your azoles!

    12. Actually it was a joke. And I will LOL

    13. @Stuart

      I love your sense of humor! Here something more to laugh at:

      "Many azoles are used as antifungal drugs, inhibiting the fungal enzyme 14α-demethylase which produces ergosterol (an important component of the fungal plasma membrane)."

      This is no joke.

    14. @ Gemma,
      Weren't we talking about saccharin? As I mentioned in 80 years of trying no one has ever managed to come up with any adverse health effects, either short or long term from saccharin consumption. I wonder why? This is silly Gemma. As you constantly observe, dose is the poison. From a person at least sympathetic to the concept of hormesis, I find it puzzling that you are so vehement about something that at the recommended doses, has never been shown to be other than completely harmless. It certainly isn't for want of trying. That's been my experience too. Sugar is a potent antifungal and antibacterial too at the right concentration, As is salt. Isn't that why fermented foods need so much salt? Common jam is an excellent wound dressing because it nukes bacteria so well. a bit sticky though.

    15. @Stuart

      Silly indeed. And a bit naive on your part. Hormesis by a man made, coal tar product, really?

      No wonder you are sugar intolerant.

    16. Stuart, exactly. I think there are times when treating the problem is the right thing to do. Thank goodness for anti-helminthics! My brother and I got athlete's foot from somewhere when we were about 5 and 7 years old. Iodine application tickled like HELL! But it got rid of the athletes' foot.

      When I look at cemetery records in what is today Slovakia, lots of babies and children died. Lots of people died of starvation (yes, that's what it says for 'cause of death'.) I don't buy into the 'all natural' 'eat dirt' hypothesis of hale and heartiness. My great great great grandfather died of cholera in 1878 in Kosice. Booyah! So NOT.

      Doesn't make me paranoid. I've had malaria and survived with only taking Bufferin. Okay, I was physically strong and well nourished and did not have a pre-existing parasite load (plus it wasn't the bad form of malaria). But after everything I've been through in my life, and you don't know the half of it, I don't give a flying fart for anyone who tells me that two teaspoons of Splenda is going to kill me. It's plain old dingbatedness to even contemplate such overblown silliness.

      I'm also in a foul mood right now from not having had any decent sleep for two nights running due to eye pain from a recurrent corneal injury. Yes, I went to the ophthalmologist. But the veterinary eye ointment that I had in stock for my cats appears to be working better than anything else. Sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do. Scrooge it. I wonder what the Hadza would do? As if they don't get injuries? We just focus on their gut bugs? Good gut bugs won't save your eye if it gets an injury, or will it?

    17. @ Gemma.
      Actually the fructose addiction developed and continued decades before I even knew what saccharin existed. Saccharin (and a lot of other non nutritive sweeteners) has merely allowed me to go on enjoying sweet while my body has been recovering from the many years overconsumption of fruit, plus a maternal microbiome innoculation that probably made it even worse.
      Gemma we'll have to leave this. Much smarter people than you or I have tried unsuccessfully for an awfully long time to find any harmful effects from the regular consumption of saccharin, either short or long term. But in forty years I'll let you know who was right. I'm 56 now , and I consume a lot of saccharin, and have done for many years. So if I'm still thriving at 96, I guess we will know.
      But I grant you. it might have been the fiber 'protecting me from the evil coal tar product all along. I am curious though why do you think so much scholarship has gone into trying to prove some, any, deleterious health effects of saccharin consumption with no result whatsoever?
      I mean you keep bringing up all this stuff that surely must have at some point in the last 80 years shown an actual causative harm from saccharin consumption. But it hasn't Why?

    18. Gabriella,
      You had the grime SBO's while you were a child, but not the fiber (both fermentable and not ) that would have allowed a stellar microbiome, and were plagued with parasites.. The Hadza have both and have a low parasite load (until they start 'living clean' in the city) There just seems to be a connection between consuming BOTH fiber and SBO's (dirt).
      One or the other on it's own, or neither, and you'll need a health practitioner a lot.
      But for trauma or immediate treatment of problems (like your athletes foot.) 'medicines' both traditional and allopathic are obviously the way to go.
      Interestingly, for my lifelong athletes foot, I used every 'remedy' I could find, including iodine. And most of them did even work for a while.But they weren't really addressing the real issue - gut dysbiosis. Since I've been doing a Wilbur and avoiding all forms of sugar (It's okay Gemma, I know you disagree!) the recurrent athletes foot has gradually receded entirely, without any creams potions drops or magic spells at all. I just love how resurrecting your microbiome means that you don't have to take all those 'potions' whether it be from a wizened old man in a tent at the edge of the village, a traditional healer in later epochs, or just your local GP. None of them address the real issue - dysbiosis.
      And as Terra commented, 911 is a GODSEND if necessary.

    19. Stuart, I had pinworms once (probably from playing in a sandbox where cats shit) and athletes foot once. I don't know how you could extrapolate from this that I didn't eat enough fibre or eat enough fermented vegetables. We did not eat SAD. I didn't even know about all the North American processed junkfood until I was at least 10 years old. We didn't have a television. My father rented a TV when both my brother and I came down with chicken pox simultaneously. Once the chicken pox was finished, the TV went back to wherever.

      It was after I was 10 years old that my father salvaged an old black and white television from the garbage, took out the tubes, tested them at the drugstore, bought replacements for those that were burned out and we had TV with the rabbit ear antennae.

      We were poor people. The biggest big deal I got to eat that was Wonderbread type toast from a roadside coffee shop, which toast was slathered with margerine and packed in a foil lined bag. Now that was luxury. It was so different, so alien, so intriguing compared to the real sourdough bread and cultured not salted butter we had at home.

      I think I"m probably old enough to be your mother. LOL!

    20. @ Gabriella
      Sorry I thought your earlier comment implied that grimy children were more prone to pinworns. I think it was in response to wildc's comment that 'grimy children are healthy children'.
      And I think that perhaps being exposed to pathogens in dirt without the immune system boosting effect of megadosing on fiber as in ancestral diets may well make people more prone to harbour parasites. Anthelmintics are just a clever primate's attempt to cover for this oversight. We just seem to have lost our way so grievously by becoming clean and reducing our fiber intake. Hence the need for so many more health practitioners.

    21. re: The Saccharin Debate

      I am not necessarily afraid of saccharin or any of the artificial sweeteners, but I don't think they belong in our food chain, and they more than likely have consequences on our health, though not overt.

      Stuart is right, lots of studies on saccharin and other sweeteners. Studies from the '70's seemed to imply they caused bladder cancer, but those studies disappear in the '80's. I have been hearing a lot lately that artificial sweeteners cause weight gain in those that use them, this paper seems to confirm, in rats.

      Saccharin and aspartame, compared with sucrose, induce greater weight gain in adult Wistar rats, at similar total caloric intake levels

      "We observed significantly greater weight gain among Wistar rats fed diets supplemented with NNS – whether saccharin or aspartame – compared with sucrose. This increase was not the re- sult of increased total caloric intake. This discrepancy raises the possibility that weight gain in NNS-fed rats might result from de- creases in energy expenditure, which have been observed in other studies. Further studies are necessary to address energy expendi- ture after NNS exposure in rats as well as long-term clinical trials to evaluate weight gain increases in humans."

      Looks like the only way to settle this is to have Gemma and Stu perform independent cocaine/saccharin lick-o-meter tests and submit the results.

      Cocaine decreases saccharin preference without altering sweet taste sensitivity

      "We measured taste sensitivity using a brief-access lickometer equipped with multiple concentrations of saccharin solution and established concentration-response curves before and after saccharin-cocaine pairing."

      So, yeah, that's where saccharin testing is today. There does not seem to be an imminent cancer danger from eating saccharin, but, it is a chemical after all, so I like to opt out of knowing consumption.

      Oh, look...a gut bug connection:

      Artificial sweeteners induce glucose intolerance by altering the gut microbiota

      "Artificial sweeteners were extensively introduced into our diets with the intention of reducing caloric intake and normalizing blood glucose levels without compromising the human ‘sweet tooth’. Together with other major shifts that occurred in human nutrition, this increase in NAS consumption coincides with the dramatic increase in the obesity and diabetes epidemics. Our findings suggest that NAS may have directly contributed to enhancing the exact epidemic that they themselves were intended to fight. Moreover, our results point towards the need to develop new nutritional strategies tailored to the individual while integrating personalized differences in the composition and function of the gut microbiota."


    22. @ Tim,
      I think one of the problems is that people often use NNS's to go on eating crappy food. I've never eaten crap but I'm just starting to realize just how grievously fruit addiction had ruined my health. The malign form of candida was in complete control of my brain as well as the rest of my body. It was horrible. Saccharin has been a very useful ( and in my experience as harmless as 80 years of extensive research has revealed it to be) tool in getting off that runaway train. While still being able to enjoy sweet which, after all, we are designed to do.
      Cocaine?, sure....

    23. I have no dog in this "fight", but I tend to side with Stuart on this. I do not use any artificial sweeteners because my diet does not have any place for them.

      I think an overwhelming problem with studies that show harm or bad effects on the microbiome is that the studies do not really demonstrate the harms in the context of a diet that already adequately feeds the gut. For instance, a higher fat diet adversely affects health and the microbiota in people who do not eat vegetables. Left unstated is that eating vegetables along with higher fat does not show these adverse effects. I've read many studies of "high fiber diets" in which the upper quintile consumes 25 g/day. Self-reported. I thought at one time that I had a high-fiber diet, but when I tried to count, I was maybe at or below the 25 g level. Getting to the recommended 38 g/day consistently was a real chore.

      I read someplace that someone - I think it was Jeff Leach, but I might be mistaken - said that the problem with studies of high fiber diets is that they forgot to give the subjects any fiber.

      The world is a different place on a true high-fiber diet. I'm not arguing over 50 vs. 150 g/day, as this might be a function of a great many things. But I find that my gut is accepting and adaptable to various "abuses" without compromising how I feel.

      I think that for those of us who have managed to significantly improve our health through improving our gut, we have to trust our gut. If Stuart's gut finds benefit in low doses of saccharin, well then maybe it truly benefits him. Function over form.

    24. Good points, all.

      In light of a healthy gut, much science changes. Gut bacteria is credited with the ability to ameliorate toxins such as heavy metals and even radiation.

      Like I said, I am not scared of saccharin. If I saw my mother getting ready to drink a Diet Coke, I would not slap it out of her hand. But I won't drink Diet Coke, myself. If I saw her getting ready to drink a glass of gasoline, you can bet I'd tackle her to prevent the ingestion.

      I think it is a real shame what passes for "safe" in our food supply...colors, flavors, sweeteners, preservatives. But my intake of these is virtually nil the last 4-5 years.

      On the topic of artificial sweeteners, though, as Stu said: "While still being able to enjoy sweet which, after all, we are designed to do."

      That may be key! We do seemed programmed to pursue some sweetness, but getting artificial sweetness, with no resulting chemical stimulation of the sugar we are seeking, surely can't be the best tactic.

      I have seen lots of people talk of massive sugar cravings when they have yeast overgrowths, as if the yeast is needing the sugar and making you eat it. Possibly the case. Once dysbiosis of the micro/myco biome is underway, all bets are off.

      So, round and round we go,

      I guess I will just defer to my hero, Jack Lalanne:

      "If man made it, don't eat it!"

    25. @ Tim,
      I think one of the problems is that people often use NNS's to go on eating crappy food. I've never eaten crap but I'm just starting to realize just how grievously fruit addiction had ruined my health. The malign form of candida was in complete control of my brain as well as the rest of my body. It was horrible. Saccharin has been a very useful ( and in my experience as harmless as 80 years of extensive research has revealed it to be) tool in getting off that runaway train. While still being able to enjoy sweet which, after all, we are designed to do.
      Cocaine?, sure....

    26. From the guy with the big saccharin dog,
      I agree that in a healthy person, moderate amounts of natural sugars don't do you any harm. But as Tim said, once dysbiosis sets in all bets are off. In my case the health downside of even small amounts of natural sugars are immediate, profound, and honestly quite debilitating. I'm not going to give up sweet. It's simply too much fun. So the choice between (for me) a toxic natural substance and a just as enjoyable NNS that despite repeated attempts, has never been found to be other than harmless is a no brainer.
      The malign yeasts and fungii waiting patiently in biofilms to wreak havoc again (ten years at least, I believe. They also wait inside macrophages the sneaky mongrels.) probably WANT you to go on feeding them a constant trickle of natural sugar to tide them over. I'm simply not going to play their game. Saccharin is an ally in this war, not something to be afraid of.
      But I have found that the 'yucky' factor of stevia that Gabriella commented on completely disappears if you combine it with saccharin.

      That Jeff Leach quote was hilarious Wilbur. That guy is priceless.

      It's worth mentioning also that there are so many toxic natural chemicals. Don't you think it might be possible that there are just as many nontoxic unnatural ones?

    27. @Stuart

      I was firmly decided not to discuss the saccharin issue with you any longer, because enough was said. But you keep talking and talking, and a bit loudly, to be frank.

      So, let me look at it and your statements once again, and try to make some conclusions, and my hope is that dear readers are smart enough to see the message, and decide for themselves.

      "In my case the health downside of even small amounts of natural sugars are immediate, profound, and honestly quite debilitating."

      You are a metabolically broken man, not being able to handle a tiny amount of sugar, and it doesn't matter what caused it. This is usually considered pathological.

      "I'm not going to give up sweet. It's simply too much fun."

      Of course. Sweet cravings are just so natural. Saccharides are one of the most dense energy sources, and we have an innate, very ancient capacity to recognize this important source of energy to fuel our life processes. Fruits, honey... Once again, a healthy person is able to deal with it, doesn't experience debilitating symptoms and probably would also pass OGTT with no problem. No so sure about you.

      As Tim mentioned above, is doesn't sound quite natural when a person feels the need to cheat his/her taste buds with a substance signalling that rich energy source (sugar) is on the way, and then it doesn't happen. The energy never comes. A bit off topic, seemingly: one keeps wondering why some plants synthesise substances simulating sweet taste.... :-)

      So, before we hear yet another lesson about the safety of saccharin from you, and how much you need it, let me tell you that you remind me of an alcoholic defending his/her daily dose.

      That's all. Good luck and better health to you.

    28. @Gabriella

      "I think I"m probably old enough to be your mother. LOL! "

      For some reason I have always imagined you being a very special woman, like this , lol.

      Mamma Mia again, just because it is weekend :-)

    29. On the topic of candida, aside from flakey websites and pseudo scientific claims, is there any evidence in the scientific literature that people with an overgrowth of candida crave sweets? I'm not interested in N = 1. I'm not interested in personal anecdotes. I want solid scientific evidence. If it doesn't exist, then the rest of the candida claptrap is garbage too.

      I'm pretty well bored and tired of all the candida blab blab that goes on. It's been going on now for decades. Every other person claims they have a problem with candida. Meantime, the only patients I know of who have been diagnosed in hospital with candida were VERY ill. So ill, they were hospitalized and some died. Or they have ill fitting dirty dentures and are entirely oblivious of the candida in the palate.

      So folks, educate me here. If you are able.

    30. Stuart did I say anything abrasive to you? And what is the 'too' about? Who are you referring to with 'too'?

      I'm not directing the questions to you personally. If you 'feel' this to be the case, probably a good idea to 'unfeel' it.

      By and large, as far as I can see, people are confused about 'yeast' and 'yeast.' The yeast that raises bread, ferments grape must, makes beer, needs sugar. That's what it lives on. Candida albicans which is a fungus that is present in everybody does not live on sugar. It likes to colonize damaged tissues because these have low oxygen tension and the nutrients C. albicans requires. It preferentially colonizes tissues in people who are iron deficient because they have low hemoglobin, hence low tissue oxygen tension.

      Women suffer from vaginal candidiasis not because they eat sugar but because for whatever reason, they engage in sexual intercourse when they are not turned on. No lube = abrasion = tissue damage = candidiasis.

      People who throw up a lot (either reflux or alcoholism) get candida in the throat and on the tongue.

      People with gall bladder inflammation and pancreatitis get candida. People with severe immune compromised conditions get candida.

      Nowhere does sugar factor in here.

      So what I want to know is where in the literature is there a concordance between a desire for sugar consumption and the presence of candida? Otherwise, I consider the emphasis on candida this and candida that to be the purview of hypochondriasis and quackery. All sorts of charlatans have been making a living off of fear mongering and providing 'cures' where none is required.

    31. @Cranky Discussion - I value the usual civility here. That's my dog in this fight. Could it come back?

      @Gabriella - Gotta say, you're either alienating or slamming a bunch of people who post here who've struggled with candida (or whatever syndrome the term 'candida' represents) and seen their own bodily evidence of eat sugar-->instant symptoms. Since when do we not allow N=1 as valid discussion around here??? Don't appreciate that kind of silencing tactic.

      And FWIW, my candida appeared after a couple of years of birth control pills (a common instigator - hormone imbalance) - NOT 'dry sex'-->vaginal damage-->etc. Whatever combination of factors makes yeast go aggressive or people's immune systems to knuckle under to it, I've been there and treated that, as well as treating it in one of my sons. The other never manifested it - he's got a kick ass immune system, go figure.

      Don't tell me and all the other people here who've struggled with this fucking thing, that it doesn't exist.

      Done on the subject.

    32. lol, you guys. This blog was about honey. How about we all just agree to disagree on some of this stuff and we'll write and talk about it in upcoming blogs? I think we are all on the same page in that there is a lot going on when it comes to sugar, yeast, and generalized advice.

      Lots more questions than answers, for sure! I value opinions from everyone, and it really does help us all, seeing things from different angles.

      Candida is such a hot topic! Friend and Foe. I'm smelling a blog post!

      For now, let's enjoy the Spring weather (or Fall for some of you) and enjoy the sunshine if it's out where you live. The angle of the sun is just right for starting that tan!

    33. Yes, please lets all maintain the civility in this wonderful blog. Plenty of room to disagree respectfully.

    34. Stuart, I hope you stay. I've learned a lot from you, and you have contributed a lot. Everyone makes mistakes. The honorable thing is not banning yourself, but facing your mistake (and I hope embarrassment), apologizing, and moving on. If not, well I wish you the best and good health.

    35. Gosh, I think everyone should calm down.

      With much respect Steve, I don't know that it helps to get so offended on other people's behalf.
      And really the same comment applies to all involved.

      Keyboards are tricky things. We can't really tell nuance and tone. We don't actually know each other, even though we might feel that we do. Some ways of expressing oneself get amplified. Something that was written quickly or off the cuff can appear rude, when nothing of the sort was intended. Some people might just be having a bad day, or too many gut bugs are switching around.
      Let's give each other the benefit of the doubt. And most importantly try to stop any judgment, whether it be how one 'ought' to express oneself, to whether certain forms of sweeteners 'should' be used, and so on.

      Ok. Getting off the soap box! It is a beautiful day here.
      And I do know that there was a big solar flare yesterday. Some believe that people become a little tetchier when these release. Maybe it's all hogwash, but I have noticed that people do respond in a more heightened way when they occur.

    36. No, Stuart. You have every right to feel that they are arrogant and unfairly dismissive of your health issues. Where I disagree is that your feelings justify a personal attack and self-imposed banishment, especially given the discourse you have contributed to which has benefitted us all and which, I believe, has benefitted you. My hope is that the discourse will continue.

      We all have hard-line points of view, especially regarding diet. I don't know why diet especially exposes this, but there you go. Gemma and Gabriella do, and you do too. Gemma and Gabriella are very direct. They challenge. That's a good thing, as it makes all of us who interact with them question and perhaps fear our own hardline views. It is an opportunity for us to question ourselves, and either emerge more confident in our beliefs or more open to the idea that maybe we hadn't considered everything. I like that. They move us forward in our thinking.

      I spent a long time in academia. I had the great fortune of having an advisor with the reputation of being rude and argumentative. He'd destroy somebody's research and then later tell me "oh, he/she was right, but he didn't understand why." It was ego that prevented them from seeing the value in his critiques.

      Gemma and Gabriella are two people with their views with freedom to express them. You are free to disagree, but respectfully.

      I did not see arrogance in their discourse with you, but you are free to disagree with me!

    37. Woke up from sedation for eyeball pain (making headway here with all the ointments and gels... actually opened my eye after sleeping and it didn't hurt like hell! Bonus.)

      Remembered this yoghurt drink which is really refreshing (an alternative I supposed to making various smoothies). Super plain version: 1/2 cup of plain yoghurt, 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon of salt, dribble ice cold water into it while whisking until you have 2 cups of mix (will get frothy on top)...... goes well with all these plain potatoes and plain baked fish or roasted meat...... can go fancier with using a blender and adding a clove of garlic or adding fresh mint or both, or adding a bit of cumin. But it's basically yoghurt, salt, ice water/soda if you must.

      Hot day? Thirsty? Try Ayran.

      The first time I tried this, I bought a bottle at the Lebanese store. Thought it was a bit strange but then noticed how refreshing it is.

      Nice to have a yoghurt drink that is not sweet. Maybe the garlic has some beneficial effect although I haven't tried it that way.

      Just a suggestion for better digestion.

  12. I know this is a bit off topic...I have two questions that I'm hoping you could help me with. I started experimenting with fiber as a result of reading this blog just a few months ago. I started with larch since that was first recommended by my Dr. and then added in PS. I tried acacia and inulin and didn't get along with them - made the constipation worse. I'm still on a relatively low dose of fiber - PS/2 tsp, larch/1 tsp, Galactomune (from Kaire Labs)/1 tsp - but in the last couple of weeks I've had terrible gas. Constipation is still an issue at times which makes me feel miserable. It makes me wonder if I've picked up a bug that I can't get rid of. I don't do any probiotics. I do a little bit of sauerkraut. I avoid the most common foods that cause digestive issues such as dairy, wheat, eggs, nuts, seed oils though I do eat butter. I cook most of what I eat. What can i try next to move beyond the terrible gas? The gut issues also cause brain fog which is no fun. Do I try a different blend of fibers?

    The other issue that is odd for me is that I've had a flakey scalp for years but right now it's worse than it's ever been. It's very scaly which is really kind of gross and it itches. I've tried loads of different shampoos/treatments over the years. I did a stool test last year but no candida issues showed up. I know that skin and gut are related. I appreciate any suggestions you have on things to try.

    1. Kim, have you had your thyroid hormones tested? If TSH is above 2.5 (even though ranges vary: here it's 0.5 to 5.0 but in the U.S. they are sometimes tending to 0.5 to 3.0) then your thyroid function may be subclinically low. Not going into more details but here's a paper on what normal people test at:

      Just take a look at the graphs. fT3 should range 5.2 to 5.8 in normal healthy. TSH about 1.4. Varies through the day, highest in the a.m.

      There are reasons why someone may be sluggish.

      Just on the offchance, have you tried magnesium citrate? Some of it gets absorbed but enough stays in the gut to make poops soft.

      Depending on your age, hormones can cause slowdown as well. Progesterone slows transit time. Women have a slower transit time than men (usually) and poops can dry out. Cooked, not raw, vegetables can help.

  13. Gabriella, thanks for your reply. I had my thyroid checked last year. TSH 0.92, Total T4 7.8 and Free T3 2.8. My Dr. said that the T3 was on the low end of the range. She said we could try a thyroid replacement but low T3 is sometimes the results of other issues and not specifically that my thyroid is an issue. I didn't realize that skin issues are often related to thyroid but discovered that today after doing a few searches. I definitely have the symptom of being cold a lot. I supplemented with zinc and selenium a while last year but didn't see any improvements. I'll give them a try again.
    I do take magnesium citrate daily. Thanks again for the reply.

    1. Kim S,
      How's your microbiome? Don't forget, if you don't resurrect your gut, you won't even absorb supplements very well. And if you do, it will become a vitamin factory too. Art Ayers explains it all far better than I could. Have you had a look at his blog 'Cooling Infammation'?
      Broken guts are a recipe for sick people and a gold plated business model for health practitioners. Get your gut fixed first. It will vastly improve your life.

    2. Kim, that is all true, but sometimes a boost will also improve whatever else is going on. How to improve metabolism without improving metabolism? Don't know what range the lab is using for fT3, but 2.8 would be below range for the labs here. Maybe get retested and do a trial of Synthroid or Cytomel (low dose) to see if you feel better.

      I've been on thyroid stuff forever (Oh NO must be my gut bugs........eeeeeeek.... baloney. I don't have autoimmune disease. I have secondary hypothyroidism and it's possible with your low TSH, you do too.) The problem with low thyroid levels is absorption of B12, iron, folate etc. is compromised so people get anemic and whatnot which doesn't help. You can be eating a really good diet and still end up with deficiencies because cellular function is not good.

  14. Stuart, yes I am working on my microbiome. It's a slow process. I have probably 6 different fibers on my counter and find that I only get along with a couple of them. Probiotics are supposed to be so great and they only make the constipation worse for me.

    Gabriella, the items you list - low B12, low folate, etc. - are also issues that show up on my blood work. I'll go back and retest to see how things look now and ask about doing a trial as you suggest. It's frustrating that eating clean, etc. isn't good enough.

    Thanks for your replies.

  15. This comment has been removed by the author.

    1. Gemma, don't be angry. Let me be angry. :) That's my sore eyeball talking. Literally ;)

      My understanding is that sugar cravings happen from low iron and/or high cortisol. People with low energy just gravitate to consuming sweets in an effort to get energy. Low iron = low oxygen tension in tissues = predisposition to developing candida overgrowths (not just albicans. I think there are at least 4 common Candida species that colonize human tissues). Various medications can result in lowered absorption of iron from the gut (wherein there is only 4 inches of small intestine where iron IS absorbed. Take that one up with Dr. Fasano.)

      Large amounts of sugar in the diet, containing no nutrients just heat source, displaces nutritionally sound food sources if a person maintains isocaloric intake. The more sugar, the less nutrients. Replacing sugar with lots of artificial sweeteners just distorts this further. After all, most of the application for artificial sweeteners isn't for T bone steaks or chicken livers. If sufficient sugar is consumed, even protein intake can be compromised to the detriment of health. I'm not even including vitamins and minerals here in the list.

      Babies like sweet. But as we grow up we become more sophisticated in regards to taste. We learn that salty and sour can be good as can bitter. Some people just never get that far. They stay at the baby stage of palatal sophistication. Is there something wrong there? Hell, yes. It's a snowball type problem. One thing leads to the other. Severely limited dietary choices in any given geographical/social/demographic situation will result in adverse health consequences if left as is.

      Maybe the adults in their environment are the same way. Usually children have curiosity and try the foods that the adults around them are consuming. They may not find the food item to be to their liking but over time they develop a taste. Some children appear to be resistant to learning new tastes.

      As to raw honey: botulinum toxin can be present. Not a problem for healthy adults but can be fatal to babies and immune compromised people. Just putting a fly in your ointment.

      Grace Lue is the 'Great Misleader'. Anything for $$$. She should put her money where her mouth is and visit the Hadza, eat some raw antelope guts, drink from a baboon shitfilled puddle..... and of course, post selfies. Mwahahaha!

    2. "As to raw honey: botulinum toxin can be present...'

      Ah! So we can inject under our skin for a glowing, younger look?

      Or take it for an overactive bladder? (

      Or hope we get some small botulism from honey as a homeopathic treatment for food poisoning? (

      Isn't that bizarre? I've seen the warning for babies and kind of knew it had to do with toxins, but maybe those toxins are also part of the magic of honey!

      I love talking about honey! Let's never stop.

    3. Honey is used in ayurvedic and occasionally babies die. Never mind. They can get on with it and magic another baby.

    4. Botox (a clostridium toxin)? Might kill babies but it seems botulotoxin is the last thing a cancer patient shoud be worrying about:

      Severing nerves may shrink stomach cancers: Botox injections slow growth of stomach tumors in mice (2014)

    5. @ Gabriella

      Have you been spying on me?!?! LOL.

      I see myself in your words regarding using sugar and caffeine (my morning tea, which I'm trying to give up) because of low energy in the morning.

      I would love to hear more about secondary hypothyroidism but don't know what questions to ask.

      I stopped reading Grace's blog simply because half the time I had no idea what she was talking about. I also was really grossed out on how much she thrived on other people's gushy comments when they extolled her.

      Her blog is NOT my cup of tea.


    6. Nicole, when I was a teenager I was anemic. Stupid eating habits. My blood pressure was so low, the only way to get it up was with caffeine.

      If you are in Canada, then just get a full panel of blood tests done including ferritin, folate, vitamin A, vitamin D and vitamin B12. These things are generally indicative of either dietary inadequacy or absorption problems.

      Being tired in the morning can be because of non restorative sleep. Many causes. Or just not getting enough hours when a person could sleep well. Too many distractions in this world. Too much light. One sleep cycle is approx. 90 minutes. If we wake up partway through a sleep cycle, then we can feel like dog poop. 7.5 hours is approx. 4 cycles. Most people who are healthy need about that much sleep or a bit more. Sleep hygiene can be an issue for many people. Apparently we are sleeping less and less these days.

    7. @Gemma,
      I see just now that your have removed the post, though I did want to say that I am sorry to hear about your relative.

      Your link to midnight oil brought back a flood of memories. I'm going to blame part of it on the purging from the wheat dextrin, and part on pure nostalgia.

      Can't resist posting a few though. Apologies in advance for the pure self-indulgence! and it might just be an 80's Australian thing that really is best left alone...
      Paul Kelly
      Paul Kelly

    8. The last one really drags a bit. So feel free to ignore/stop it. In fact feel free to ignore them all! Though do love some 80s Paul Kelly.


    9. Andrea, I love Paul Kelly. The song I keep on my favourites bar is this one:

      only to be understood really in biographical context.

      He has other ones that I really love too. Canuck who loves Aussie singer!

    10. This one makes me laugh and groan at the same time........

    11. in truth, I find him very appealing. Bad boy. But so sensitive. Makes so many life mistakes but, he's just got that bad boy appeal. Why did you start this? NOw I"m listening to Dumb Things.

    12. Oh Gabriella that live 'They Thought I was Asleep' is just gorgeous.
      He really is one of the best songwriters out there. Some just give me chills every time! Glad that he is known elsewhere.

      Yeah, I wasted yet more time today listening to others I hadn't heard in a while.

      This one in particular usually brings a tear.
      Gough was so totally different to the psycho PM we have now.

    13. Another bad boy for you.
      Very bad in those days!

    14. In fact such a bad boy it feels quite out of place on a blog like this with Abba and all.
      Will stop now!

    15. Andrea, you've provided balance. ;)

  16. @ Gabriella

    Thanks for the tips.

    I generally have a good routine since I put the kids to bed. But like you said, there are many reasons. I'll pay better attention to my sleeping habits.

    I'm in Ontario and I'll take another look for those markers on my recent blood work. However, I don't think folate or vitamin A is on the panel unless its under an other medical term.


    1. You'd have to add vitamin A with pen. Same goes now for vitamin B12. They've taken it off as a tickable test because it was costing the government $40 million dollar per year. Vitamin D is only tested if you have osteoporosis..... duh.... a bit late no? I've never had my folate tested. Seems since I'm not into breeding, they don't care. Oh yeah. You should read the Ministry of Health notes to doctors. They stopped bothering to test folate since they tell their female patients of childbearing age to take folic acid. So there's an assumption that patients are doing this. It all beggars belief!! Read this stuff and weep.

    2. @ Gabriella

      Thanks for the info.

      I'll check out the Ministry of Health (with a box of kleenex) then I'll understand my doctors position better.


  17. Thought I'd post a little update here - started trialling a little honey - no issues, so I thought I'd increase it - so I've been eating 3-4 large teaspoons of raw local honey a day, which I really enjoy. The weird thing was the 1st 4 days - everytime I took a tsp - headache and neck pain (tight as though I'd pulled a muscle) - which took several hours to subside.
    Each day I could feel the pain reducing in intensity so I persisted - now no issues.

    Would be nice to discuss honey a little further as this post got steered towards fake sugars.

    1. Rob

      much was said about honey here, and in the comments under other posts...

      Hard to say what your symptoms were. Also, there are many kinds of honey, each bottle is a unique product.

      I often recommend honeydew honey to try - any chance for that?

  18. Thanks for the heads up Gemma, I'd never heard of honeydew honey - but it does sound a little unique - so I will be trying some.

    A side note - I did try the baobab again (just 1/2 tsp) because I felt better. Was going to leave it a day or 2 days and try again, but I think it took 5 days to get back to normal. Bone cracking wasn't as bad as I only took for 1 day, but I'm going to leave it now for quite a while before trying again.

    Thanks for all the insights you post on here.