Discussions on potato diets, resistant starch, gut health, prebiotics, probiotics, oil-pulling, cold thermogenesis, and other affairs of plain living...
I think Bob has to be careful not to promote PS as a health supplement. There are completely different rules involved between food items and "drugs." Although, it isn't a stretch to think they could market a line of resistant starches labeled with RS contents and organic at double the price. I'd buy it. Especially if they had different starches like sweet potato, mung bean, tapioca, etc. all labeled with RS content.
I'm one of the people that sent the link to "her" invitation. I have to admit I get mixed feelings about RS when I read her frequent rants, but then it always gets to potato starch, and never the other RS2 items. Obviously there is some history between Tim and this lady about potato starch, but she appears to needlessly pick tiny bits of big papers to make her point. Tim has the easy part - 40 years of study after study showing that potato starch is a very good source of RS2 and that RS2 has healthful qualities.
I never recall Tim saying we MUST take raw potato starch, always just showing the science and offering various solutions.
There are plenty of alternatives. I like the price and high RS percentage in PS. It would be nice to see some well-designed, long-term, human studies to examine dosage, timing, and health benefits. I think most people need some type of fiber supplement. I could care less what type. If you click the "Dr. Christianson" link above, you'll see that Australia's government is investing heavily in resistant starch from peas for use as a food additive.
Not sure, but pea protein is a big additive to these pre-packaged drink powders. Does that mean RS is in them from the peas as well? Or do they just somehow isolate the pea protein? My daughter drinks one of these abominations and it makes for very regular bowel movements. So I'm assuming there's lots of fibre in them.
I find all these flours leave me really bloated, Switched to gluten free some years back as wheat, even the tiniest breath of a molecule, used to make me an angry, ragey hulk. End result bloating.
Tried the flours individually - bloating. Far beyond what I usually experience. I always think of Ian Spreadbury when this happens and his cellular/acellular hypothesis.
I was one of those who got a terrible aching body from potato starch. Tried all sorts that were gluten or wheat free and same result everytime. Can eat potatoes without any reaction. I remember people commenting about adverse reactions on this blog but not sure if I ever got any sense of what the culprit was. So I don't use it.
I am new to the potato hack so this may have been answered before, but I have not been able to find it. When I read the Nutrition Facts label on the unmodified potato starch (Bob's Red Mill), it reports 0%/0 g fiber. Is resistant starch something different from soluble and insoluble fibers? Thanks.
Good observation! The nutrition facts are made for the food item "as eaten." In the case of potato starch, cooked. When cooked, there is no RS. Raw, it is about 75% RS. RS is technically an insoluble fiber, but it acts like a soluble fiber in that it gets fermented by gut bacteria.
I've seen a study seeming to indicate RS5-enhanced rice, made by making rice with some added coconut oil, reduces BG spikes. That doesn't seem too artificial.
RS5 has only appeared in research in just the past couple years. As with RS4, there are probably several different ways of making it in a lab that results on a product very much unlike the RS5 created in a wok. Lots of things for the food scientists to play with in regards to RS3,4 and 5. I was surprised big-time by the recent RS4 study. I would have bet a pile of potatoes that the study participants would have significant gut flora changes across the board, but nope. Hardly any changes seen at all.
Finnish supermarkets sell potato starch with name potato flour. This product has 58% resistant starch according to this product info pdf http://www.finnamyl.fi/tiedostot/Perunajauhot_Luomu_tuotekortti.pdf
I think potato starch is useful, but I still worry that people will make a bad habit of not transitioning themselves to proper diet in the long run. Like someone using melatonin while their whole sleep hygiene needs a tune-up.
...or Vit D to avoid the sun, Vit C to overcome lack of fruit, Choline to make up for low egg consumption, B-12 to correct meat deficiencies.
I know, I know. People will not eat the fiber they should and rely on a crazy powder. If one simply adheres to the standard guidelines to get 30-40g of fiber per day, they do not need any supplemental fiber powders. My guess is that RPS is just as, or more effective than the shelf after shelf of fiber supplements at WalMart.
I'm guessing that the difference in RS between potatoes cooked in any manner is not all that great, possibly the potato variety and age makes even more difference, but even that research does not make me want to search out specific potatoes of a specific age.
That said, if you like pressure cooking, this is good news! It would be bad if they found pressure cooking destroys RS, but since it does not, this is a very good cooking method.
I certainly hope that cooking them in the Instant Pot doesn't destroy their RS - I love steaming or pressure cooking potatoes in mine - so fast, so easy, so little energy expenditure or heating of my kitchen. As an expert in the field of kitchen gadget/ appliance/vessel/heater/cooker/pot&pan acquisitions, I will say that the Instant Pot is one of the most used things in my kitchen. Hard pressed as I would be to do so, if I HAD to make a decision to keep only 5 appliances from my kitchen, the Instant Pot would make the cut. But, hopefully that decision will never be required....what a nightmare that would be.
As a side note, it's about time for my semi-annual fiber review - in the past I have used suggestions for different fibers - gleaned from here - Tim's articles and WIlbur's self testing, with good results... Wondering if anyone (Wilbur if you are still reading here)...has made any more recent updates in their fiber findings? now pretty much using inulin, PS, pysllium, dextrin and a few others....feeling so much better on many levels...but tweaking is my hobby, along with reading more about all of this. Thanks.!
What seems to work best for me, is simply being sure to have good fibers at each meal. Most often that is oatmeal for breakfast, potato salad for lunch and lentils or beans at dinner. I try for lots of other veggies too, plus some berries, nuts, seeds and some greenish bananas every few days a tablespoon of some fermented veg at each meal. Chris Kresser's recent recipe for plantain pancakes using tiger and nut cassava flour are great too. i have onlymade them once so far and used a greenish banana instead of plantain. Very tasty and great to have as a cold leftover for snack or on the road.
The powders always left me a bit unsettled...just did not feel normal never found the right mix. With the whole foods life is much simpler, cheaper and I feel great.
Now I have a large box of various powders in the closet. I may keep them as insurance but diubt I will use them.
Lynn, that's great to hear. You too elliebelly. I think everybody needs to do things the way it suits them, but with the idea of feeding the gut bugs a diverse diet.
I'm in heaven right now. The farmers markets are providing lots of stuff. Garlic scapes, fresh garlic, spring onions, young fava beans, wild ramps, so on. I've been getting salad mixes with marigold leaves and flowers, chamomile leaves, basil leaves, and lots of other things. Strong biting flavors. Tomatoes, berries, purple carrots. Antioxidant heaven!
About the only thing new in my fiber mix is chia seeds. My gut really seems to enjoy them.
I am almost 3 years into this. The routine is stable. I feel like I'm still improving. The best way I can explain it is that I feel like I should have felt when I was 30 years younger (I'm 48). Not like I really felt because I had weight isdues, allergies, digestion problems, etc. that I do not have now. Not a young mind in an old body. Just young in mind, body, and spirit. No aches, no pains. Invincible again. But happier because I'm content with who I am, being this side of mid-life.
just this morning noticed on Amazon - a brand of pasta made entirely from lentils as the sole ingredient. I am keen to try it - I haven't eaten regular pasta in so long....
Resistant dextrins show good prebiotic qualities. You can buy wheat dextrin on Amazon, I've tried it, it seems just fine. (example: Benefiber - http://amzn.to/29A5bBi )
Resistant dextrins in nature are probably found in the charred outer surface of cooked starches, the one made for prebiotic supplements are chemically modified starches, as described:
"During warming of starch in high temperature,with or without addition of catalyst (usually acidic) dextrinization of starch is observed. Dextrinization is a complex process taking chemical side of it into account. It covers depolymerization, transglucolyzation and repolymerization [122]. " ( from: http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/41117.pdf )
But worth a try if the standard lineup do not suit your fancy.
Nothing quite like being vindicated. Bob must love you to bits!
ReplyDeleteAnd all the other potato starch companies too.
There were times that the Korean supermarket ran out of bags of potato starch! Someones are paying attention.
I think Bob has to be careful not to promote PS as a health supplement. There are completely different rules involved between food items and "drugs." Although, it isn't a stretch to think they could market a line of resistant starches labeled with RS contents and organic at double the price. I'd buy it. Especially if they had different starches like sweet potato, mung bean, tapioca, etc. all labeled with RS content.
DeleteI'm one of the people that sent the link to "her" invitation. I have to admit I get mixed feelings about RS when I read her frequent rants, but then it always gets to potato starch, and never the other RS2 items. Obviously there is some history between Tim and this lady about potato starch, but she appears to needlessly pick tiny bits of big papers to make her point. Tim has the easy part - 40 years of study after study showing that potato starch is a very good source of RS2 and that RS2 has healthful qualities.
ReplyDeleteI never recall Tim saying we MUST take raw potato starch, always just showing the science and offering various solutions.
There are plenty of alternatives. I like the price and high RS percentage in PS. It would be nice to see some well-designed, long-term, human studies to examine dosage, timing, and health benefits. I think most people need some type of fiber supplement. I could care less what type. If you click the "Dr. Christianson" link above, you'll see that Australia's government is investing heavily in resistant starch from peas for use as a food additive.
DeleteThanks for the note!
Not sure, but pea protein is a big additive to these pre-packaged drink powders. Does that mean RS is in them from the peas as well? Or do they just somehow isolate the pea protein? My daughter drinks one of these abominations and it makes for very regular bowel movements. So I'm assuming there's lots of fibre in them.
DeleteI find all these flours leave me really bloated, Switched to gluten free some years back as wheat, even the tiniest breath of a molecule, used to make me an angry, ragey hulk. End result bloating.
ReplyDeleteTried the flours individually - bloating. Far beyond what I usually experience. I always think of Ian Spreadbury when this happens and his cellular/acellular hypothesis.
I was one of those who got a terrible aching body from potato starch. Tried all sorts that were gluten or wheat free and same result everytime. Can eat potatoes without any reaction. I remember people commenting about adverse reactions on this blog but not sure if I ever got any sense of what the culprit was. So I don't use it.
Fair enough. Rarely does anything work for 100% of the people.
DeleteI am new to the potato hack so this may have been answered before, but I have not been able to find it. When I read the Nutrition Facts label on the unmodified potato starch (Bob's Red Mill), it reports 0%/0 g fiber. Is resistant starch something different from soluble and insoluble fibers? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteGood observation! The nutrition facts are made for the food item "as eaten." In the case of potato starch, cooked. When cooked, there is no RS. Raw, it is about 75% RS. RS is technically an insoluble fiber, but it acts like a soluble fiber in that it gets fermented by gut bacteria.
DeleteI've seen a study seeming to indicate RS5-enhanced rice, made by making rice with some added coconut oil, reduces BG spikes. That doesn't seem too artificial.
ReplyDeleteRS5 has only appeared in research in just the past couple years. As with RS4, there are probably several different ways of making it in a lab that results on a product very much unlike the RS5 created in a wok. Lots of things for the food scientists to play with in regards to RS3,4 and 5. I was surprised big-time by the recent RS4 study. I would have bet a pile of potatoes that the study participants would have significant gut flora changes across the board, but nope. Hardly any changes seen at all.
DeleteFinnish supermarkets sell potato starch with name potato flour. This product has 58% resistant starch according to this product info pdf http://www.finnamyl.fi/tiedostot/Perunajauhot_Luomu_tuotekortti.pdf
ReplyDeleteI think potato starch is useful, but I still worry that people will make a bad habit of not transitioning themselves to proper diet in the long run. Like someone using melatonin while their whole sleep hygiene needs a tune-up.
ReplyDelete...or Vit D to avoid the sun, Vit C to overcome lack of fruit, Choline to make up for low egg consumption, B-12 to correct meat deficiencies.
DeleteI know, I know. People will not eat the fiber they should and rely on a crazy powder. If one simply adheres to the standard guidelines to get 30-40g of fiber per day, they do not need any supplemental fiber powders. My guess is that RPS is just as, or more effective than the shelf after shelf of fiber supplements at WalMart.
LOL! True!
DeleteTim, do you know how much RS there is in glucomannon?
ReplyDeleteNone. Glucomannan is a fiber similar to RS found in konjac roots, wood, and bacteria and yeast cell walls.
DeleteApprently, pressure cooking potatoes increases the RS content! This is particularly exciting news as my Instant Pot just arrived
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hippressurecooking.com/pressure-cooker-potato-nutrition/
I'm guessing that the difference in RS between potatoes cooked in any manner is not all that great, possibly the potato variety and age makes even more difference, but even that research does not make me want to search out specific potatoes of a specific age.
DeleteThat said, if you like pressure cooking, this is good news! It would be bad if they found pressure cooking destroys RS, but since it does not, this is a very good cooking method.
Thanks for sharing!
I certainly hope that cooking them in the Instant Pot doesn't destroy their RS - I love steaming or pressure cooking potatoes in mine - so fast, so easy, so little energy expenditure or heating of my kitchen. As an expert in the field of kitchen gadget/ appliance/vessel/heater/cooker/pot&pan acquisitions, I will say that the Instant Pot is one of the most used things in my kitchen. Hard pressed as I would be to do so, if I HAD to make a decision to keep only 5 appliances from my kitchen, the Instant Pot would make the cut. But, hopefully that decision will never be required....what a nightmare that would be.
ReplyDeletelove the instant pot too...makes the kitchen gadget hall of fame, along side the power blender and crockpot.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why heat or pressure would destroy RS though....
And with an Instant Pot, you already have a great crock pot.
DeleteAs a side note, it's about time for my semi-annual fiber review - in the past I have used suggestions for different fibers - gleaned from here - Tim's articles and WIlbur's self testing, with good results...
ReplyDeleteWondering if anyone (Wilbur if you are still reading here)...has made any more recent updates in their fiber findings? now pretty much using inulin, PS, pysllium, dextrin and a few others....feeling so much better on many levels...but tweaking is my hobby, along with reading more about all of this. Thanks.!
What seems to work best for me, is simply being sure to have good fibers at each meal. Most often that is oatmeal for breakfast, potato salad for lunch and lentils or beans at dinner. I try for lots of other veggies too, plus some berries, nuts, seeds and some greenish bananas every few days a tablespoon of some fermented veg at each meal. Chris Kresser's recent recipe for plantain pancakes using tiger and nut cassava flour are great too. i have onlymade them once so far and used a greenish banana instead of plantain. Very tasty and great to have as a cold leftover for snack or on the road.
DeleteThe powders always left me a bit unsettled...just did not feel normal never found the right mix. With the whole foods life is much simpler, cheaper and I feel great.
Now I have a large box of various powders in the closet. I may keep them as insurance but diubt I will use them.
Lynn, that's great to hear. You too elliebelly. I think everybody needs to do things the way it suits them, but with the idea of feeding the gut bugs a diverse diet.
DeleteI'm in heaven right now. The farmers markets are providing lots of stuff. Garlic scapes, fresh garlic, spring onions, young fava beans, wild ramps, so on. I've been getting salad mixes with marigold leaves and flowers, chamomile leaves, basil leaves, and lots of other things. Strong biting flavors. Tomatoes, berries, purple carrots. Antioxidant heaven!
About the only thing new in my fiber mix is chia seeds. My gut really seems to enjoy them.
I am almost 3 years into this. The routine is stable. I feel like I'm still improving. The best way I can explain it is that I feel like I should have felt when I was 30 years younger (I'm 48). Not like I really felt because I had weight isdues, allergies, digestion problems, etc. that I do not have now. Not a young mind in an old body. Just young in mind, body, and spirit. No aches, no pains. Invincible again. But happier because I'm content with who I am, being this side of mid-life.
just this morning noticed on Amazon - a brand of pasta made entirely from lentils as the sole ingredient. I am keen to try it - I haven't eaten regular pasta in so long....
ReplyDeleteHave you tried? I've tried different pastas, black bean noodles, sweet potato starch noodles, and some others. Some are really good.
Deletejust bought first box last night...will report back when I fix it with something...
DeleteI think a spinach sauce sounds good with a lentil pasta.
Share where I can find the lentil and sweet potato starch noodles...what's your favorite healthy noodle, Tim?
DeleteI like these sweet potato starch noodles: http://amzn.to/2ayLED1
DeleteAnd these for mung bean: http://amzn.to/2alNKWU
I tried a couple of black bean noodles and did not like them at all, but some love them.
ReplyDeleteAnyone heard of resistant dextrin before? wondering how it differs from resistant starch?
http://www.nutriose.com/nutriose-in-brief/natural-fiber.html
Resistant dextrins show good prebiotic qualities. You can buy wheat dextrin on Amazon, I've tried it, it seems just fine. (example: Benefiber - http://amzn.to/29A5bBi )
ReplyDeleteResistant dextrins in nature are probably found in the charred outer surface of cooked starches, the one made for prebiotic supplements are chemically modified starches, as described:
"During warming of starch in high temperature,with or without addition of catalyst (usually acidic) dextrinization of starch is observed. Dextrinization is a complex process taking chemical side of it into account. It covers depolymerization, transglucolyzation and repolymerization [122]. " ( from: http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/41117.pdf )
But worth a try if the standard lineup do not suit your fancy.