tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post8338995814145173891..comments2023-10-29T01:46:00.188-08:00Comments on VeggiePharm: Researcher "Pulls a Wilbur." Tim Steelehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01611027687223434753noreply@blogger.comBlogger122125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-68455052959619906822015-11-05T07:41:39.799-09:002015-11-05T07:41:39.799-09:00Thanks, Wilbur! I will try. I am trying to find ...Thanks, Wilbur! I will try. I am trying to find the amount that will be effective by not make me so aromatic and slowly build up from there. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09180158588887178998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-38674001344558571162015-11-05T06:16:35.429-09:002015-11-05T06:16:35.429-09:00Here's a link to a popular press article that ...Here's a link to a popular press article that references the study. A lik to the study is in the article<br /><br />http://www.mensfitness.com/weight-loss/burn-fat-fast/eating-everything-moderation-probably-just-making-you-fatter<br /><br />My understanding is that the gut microbiome changes very rapidly in response to diet, within 24 hours. I would guess certainly the proportions could change very quickly. Keep eating the garlic!Wilburnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-65025558122790846762015-11-05T04:09:18.736-09:002015-11-05T04:09:18.736-09:00Wilbur, You posted a study the other day that deal...Wilbur, You posted a study the other day that dealt with food diversity vs gut diversity. I cannot find it. Could you please repost it? <br /><br />For anybody who has taken garlic in largish quantities, I was getting sick a few weeks ago and took an old Italian remedy. A quarter cup of chopped garlic in tomato juice twice a day . I did this until my throat felt better and I could tell the virus and been subdued. That was 5 doses. Or roughly 2 and 1/2 bulbs. Could that much in such a short period of time have made a difference to my gut species? I have been doing a number of different things lately (more exercises less supplements), so it is hard to pin point but I definitely feel calmer. Anxiety is an issue I've been wrestling with for the last year.<br /><br />SLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-31333198466897200512015-11-04T02:02:19.336-09:002015-11-04T02:02:19.336-09:00Elliebelly - you'll know how powerful garlic c...Elliebelly - you'll know how powerful garlic can be, my only comment would be to take it slow. Even Wilbur appeared to have issues taking garlic neat. I had some issues with it originally (stomach feeling uneasy mainly), but am fine now - unless I take too much. 1 clove, crushed, rested for 10 mins, then swilled down with water is fine. 2 large cloves and I can have quite bad toilet issues.<br /><br />48 tablets is some going - really hope it is paying off for youAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00861227147433172034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-42967445768408182522015-11-03T13:40:46.372-09:002015-11-03T13:40:46.372-09:00Thanks, William! Keep us posted. Remember, the u...Thanks, William! Keep us posted. Remember, the ultimate goal is to increase what you can eat, not eliminate everything until you are only eating a few things. Glad you are working with some professionals.Tim Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01611027687223434753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-4570847874940266752015-11-03T04:55:46.842-09:002015-11-03T04:55:46.842-09:00Hey Rob,
Rmember a while back when we were disciss...Hey Rob,<br />Rmember a while back when we were discissing garlic and I said that it made me wake up in the midde of the night or way too early in the morning o move my bowels? Well here is my follow up to that. Ibelieve that the capaules I have been taking for Lyme disease were confusing the issue. At that point I was increasing my dosage weekly and did not appreciate how much fiber they contain. I am now pretty much adapted to all those capsules. (48 daily) so may try the garlic again, especially since some people advocate garlic supplements for Lyme.elliebellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15647947387802335253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-58795249395947228332015-11-03T03:40:37.377-09:002015-11-03T03:40:37.377-09:00Best of luck - hope you see some improvements.
I&...Best of luck - hope you see some improvements.<br /><br />I'm very interested in your mileage with any intervention. I think one of the problems with people posting issues on forums etc. is that once they recover, they rarely follow up what worked - leaving everyone guessing.<br /><br />Tim - we could do with a longer recent comments list if possible. I try to get on here once per day, but when work is manic (I did 79 hours last week), such comments as this are easy to miss, especially if they appear somewhere other than your most recent blog post.<br /><br />Just my thoughts.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00861227147433172034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-64996166406769051852015-11-03T01:28:28.337-09:002015-11-03T01:28:28.337-09:00Hi all
Just a quick update regarding the above fo...Hi all<br /><br />Just a quick update regarding the above for anyone interested (and hopefully of use to any other AS sufferers out there) - I have since been consulting with a nutritionist and have had the Genova test with parasitology, the SIBO breath test and an IGG/IGA antibody blood test (used for detecting leaky gut) and I have to say I'm somewhat surprised by the results.<br /><br />From the Genova test, it turns out that klebsiella isn't a factor for me at all (so much for that widely held theory) but I do have citrobacter and enterobacter.<br /><br />As expected, I tested positive for SIBO and leaky gut, although my leaky gut case was described as relatively mild.<br /><br />I'm now on a 30 day program supplement program of ADP Oregano, Berberine, Allimend (allicin extract) and Whole GI Wellness.<br /><br />The plan is to get the SIBO levels down and then follow this up with probiotics and RS.<br /><br />I'm currently 2 weeks in and starting to feel the 'herx' reaction which, hopefully means things are moving in the right direction.<br /><br />Thanks again for reading, and I'll post another update once I've completed the probiotics round.<br /><br />WilliamAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07268508052779840600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-41069277843084116982015-07-30T06:18:17.103-08:002015-07-30T06:18:17.103-08:00Thanks for the info Harriet.
I've decided to ...Thanks for the info Harriet.<br /><br />I've decided to cut out the potato starch for now until I get my pain levels settled a bit.<br /><br />I definitely intend to give it another go in the future though.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07268508052779840600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-17778855764390473262015-07-29T06:15:41.566-08:002015-07-29T06:15:41.566-08:00Hi William
Sorry about my slow response but I'...Hi William<br />Sorry about my slow response but I'm travelling and this is the first time in a fortnight I've cleared my mail.<br /><br />I did the potato starch, starting with just 1 tbs at night. By the time I got to 4 tbs in 4 days I was starting to feel distinctly sorry for myself with a flare up - the worst I ever had but fortunately my AS isn't too bad. However, and this is interesting, that 4th day (if my memory serves me right) was the worst and the pain and symptoms started to subside after that. By another few weeks from my bad day I was just a bit worse than when I started. By 6 months or so I was no worse than when I started. I've not had any flares since then despite various experimental things tried.<br /><br />I undid my various good works by agreeing to my doctor's suggestion to go on antibiotics last January to clear a streptococcus infection. She is an experienced nutritional medicine doc so I trusted her judgement but while I got rid of my worst symptom of alzheimerish memory loss it caused huge other problems including a return of depression and food intolerances I had previously eliminated. I am currently working at returning to my previously improved condition. However through all this I've not had any flares of my AS. As long as I keep moving as I have always had to I'm OK. <br /><br />Basically potato starch has improved my overall health immensely after the sore start to the process. Two bad days, a year and a half improved.<br />HarrietAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-18100114338223670432015-07-25T22:22:30.595-08:002015-07-25T22:22:30.595-08:00I would say that polyphenols bind to glycans, sinc...I would say that polyphenols bind to glycans, since they share hydrophobic domains. The inherent toxicity of the polyphenols is reduced by being immobilized on the glucans and transported to the colon. Some of the polyphenols must be transported along with bile salts. All along, the polyphenols are killing gut flora that favors lean vs. obese.Dr. Art Ayershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01727664149735013259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-68524273558147086072015-07-25T16:28:23.249-08:002015-07-25T16:28:23.249-08:00Would blueberry concentrate be a good source of po...Would blueberry concentrate be a good source of polyphenols? Are polyphenols heat stable?Christinanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-87167627593826715142015-07-25T13:15:48.973-08:002015-07-25T13:15:48.973-08:00Are you saying that the patented smoothy blend tha...Are you saying that the patented smoothy blend that has been talked about might actually have scientific backing, and that when looking at the chemical structure of polyphenols, B-glucans, etc... it might not really apply that they have seemingly harmful properties, when looked at in the context of a whole-body ecosystem?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-76072662352632120882015-07-25T11:16:48.233-08:002015-07-25T11:16:48.233-08:00And here some science on deadly polyphenols, comfo...And here some science on deadly polyphenols, comfortably collected by Duck Dodgers <a href="http://freetheanimal.com/2015/01/hormesis-afraid-unrefined.html" rel="nofollow">in this post</a>: (links to the studies and papers in the linked post)<br /><br />"And just like the glycans in fibers and polysaccharides, polyphenols have glycosidic linkages that can be metabolized by gut bugs. This explains why red wine polyphenols can bloom certain kinds of bacteria.<br /><br />In fact, polyphenols, fructans, and fibers like RS appear to be synergistic. One study showed that tea polyphenols modulate RS to produce a more slowly digestible starch that is beneficial to postprandial glycemic control. Fructans are not only prebiotics, but when combined with co-existing phenolic compounds they too can exhibit anti-inflammatory, antioxidant and immunomodulatory properties.<br /><br />And it seems that plant-derived polyphenols can act in collaboration with whole saliva, human red blood cells, platelets, and also with catalase-positive microorganisms to decompose reactive oxygen species (ROS). Amazingly, polyphenols can adhere to mucosal surfaces, and are retained there for long periods to possibly act as a "slow-release devices" capable of affecting the redox status in the oral cavity."<br /><br />Gemmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18051515271519007652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-71992029321461428582015-07-25T11:04:10.901-08:002015-07-25T11:04:10.901-08:00And it will be such a shame to see these giant bea...And it will be such a shame to see these giant bears in Alaska go extinct. It seems they recently discovered the wild blueberries and have been eating them non-stop. I suspect soon they will fall asleep and not awaken.<br /><br />Maybe we can spray fluridone, diquat, and 2,4D on the berries to save these stupid animals that know no better than to eat blueberries!<br /><br />https://youtu.be/kltXt-skrigTim Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01611027687223434753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-33698873505168679612015-07-25T10:58:59.130-08:002015-07-25T10:58:59.130-08:00Zogby
good points. We really need to talk the pol...Zogby<br /><br />good points. We really need to talk the polyphenols more. <br /><br />And someone smart speaking dog language needs to explain to my dog that blueberries (billberries?) contain deadly toxins. Silly, silly dog. Here she is, feasting on polyphenols. <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/pzr49hl7drio7aa/Deadly%20blueberries.3gp?dl=0" rel="nofollow">Video (low quality, sorry)</a>.Gemmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18051515271519007652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-74214727668292756522015-07-25T10:09:40.236-08:002015-07-25T10:09:40.236-08:00Art:
There are parts here that I agree with, and ...Art:<br /><br />There are parts here that I agree with, and some things I'm not yet convinced on.<br /><br />The things I buy:<br /><br />- The whole mix of phytochemicals prevents bacterial resistance. After all, plants are still around while being constantly challenged by bacteria, so they must ultimately be able to defend themselves pretty well.<br /><br />- Gut bacteria is different from those encountered by plants in soil. Further, gut bacteria varies from person to person. So I buy that different phytochemical mixes will affect individuals differently.<br /><br />- (not from this discussions) Reduced diet diversity can lead to improved microbiota diversity and strength.<br /><br />But I'm not sure I agree that phytochemicals are incapable of benefiting gut health. Here are possible arguments:<br /><br />- Consumed plants contain a fixed set of phytochemicals. A consumed plant can't engage the pathways you refer to in response to the gut flora, as they might when growing in soil.<br /><br />- Some gut flora are able to metabolize polyphenols, conferring an advantage to bacteria possessing the right genes. Indeed, there is speculation that the by-products of polyphenol metabolism in the gut is needed for them to be beneficial.<br /><br />- Some plants form symbiotic relationships with bacteria, while presumably holding pathogens at bay. That implies that the broad spectrum phytochemicals they produce still allow for some species. Now, perhaps this is very specialized to the natural conditions of the plant, and thus is irrelevant to gut health, but given how chaotic nature is, I'm not sure.<br /><br />So, if consuming plants means that the phytochemicals' antimicrobial action is incomplete, then it seems reasonable to me that some bacteria will be selected against. And if so, it seems likely that we, as plant eaters, are more compatible with the bacteria that thrive.<br /><br />To some extent, this is academic, because I think we'd mostly agree on the right course of action. For example, your posts on decreasing diet diversity, and Tim's results from his potato mono diet, have convinced me to try eating a diet primarily composed of 5-6 ingredients, at least for a couple of weeks, as an experiment.<br /><br />But I do include polyphenols (dark chocolate, green tea, blueberries) as an extra nudge towards a beneficial microbiota, in case it actually helps. :)<br />zogbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-52397986557590381262015-07-24T14:43:04.246-08:002015-07-24T14:43:04.246-08:00@ Gabi - I should have said that, yes.@ Gabi - I should have said that, yes.wildcucumberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16984536305827910383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-45638795438220062462015-07-24T14:39:16.259-08:002015-07-24T14:39:16.259-08:00Wlbur, maybe garlic paste would result in burn.
...Wlbur, maybe garlic paste would result in burn. <br /><br />Cukey, get someone else to apply garlic paste to the sole of the foot and find out if there's taste in the mouth. Otherwise there can be cross contamination. Gabriella Kadarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18294468426599703416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-69292022835232657412015-07-24T14:37:17.825-08:002015-07-24T14:37:17.825-08:00zogby,
I think that a mixture of phytochemicals, m...zogby,<br />I think that a mixture of phytochemicals, most of which have the adaptive advantage associated with their antimicrobial activities, will selectively kill particular bacterial that the host plant experiences. So, the selective advantage to the plant to produce the phytochemical is to kill particular fungi or bacteria.<br /><br />People eat plants because they can get away with it, i.e. the toxicity of the plant's phytochemicals provides a burden less than the benefit of the protein, fat and calories supplied by the plant.<br /><br />The phytochemicals produced by a plant reflect adjustments to its secondary product enzymatic pathways. A mixture of intermediates and branched pathways results in the suppression of most bacteria and fungi that encounter the plant, i.e. a mixture of antibiotics. Any one of those phytochemicals would select for resistant mutants, but the mixture does not.<br /><br />The gut microbiota are different from the organisms challenging a plant and the phytochemical mixture from each plant will have a different impact on the gut microbiota of each person. It will be mostly empirical, but familial, since people in the same family share gut flora and food.<br /><br />I think that it is nonsense to expect everyone to respond the same way to a mixture of phytochemicals, e.g. blueberry extract. Prebiotic fiber may provide similar experiences, because the various polysaccharides are metabolized by different individual bacterial genotypes that occupy equivalent niches in different people, i.e. the niche definition of bacterial species as opposed to the genotype definition. Pathogens tend to have parallel niche and sequence definitions, unlike commensals.<br /><br />I do not believe that phytochemicals, in general, contribute to gut health, nor do they preferentially stimulate beneficial bacteria and inhibit pathogens. I also don't think that it is possible to match food and phytochemical gut flora manipulators. Gut flora can adapt to phytochemicals, just as they adapt to commercial antibiotics, aka purified phytochemicals.<br /><br />It seems to me to be easiest to adopt (FMT) gut microbiota adapted to a general diet, e.g. potatoes, and then subsequently eat that diet until the new bacteria are established. This approach would reveal people whose gut cannot communicate to maintain an interaction with a defined diet/microbiota. This would provide access to the variability of the host physiological state. I assume there is no individual genotype impact, since there is so little impact of human genes on major diseases.Dr. Art Ayershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01727664149735013259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-28195081577046880012015-07-24T14:08:24.331-08:002015-07-24T14:08:24.331-08:00If you rub a cut clove of garlic on the sole of yo...If you rub a cut clove of garlic on the sole of your foot, you can taste it in your mouth within minutes. Perhaps doing that would have a systemic antibiotic effect? wildcucumberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16984536305827910383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-39593563750005653662015-07-24T11:40:23.828-08:002015-07-24T11:40:23.828-08:00Plus, I think a lot of what happens in the gut nee...Plus, I think a lot of what happens in the gut needs to start in the cecum, this is the stomach-like pouch at the very start of the large intestine. The fermentation and species present here set up a chain reaction for the rest of the large intestine.<br /><br />I would not think that introducing a powerful plant chemical in the distal colon would have an overall systemic effect, but I could be wrong. <br /><br />I will also pass on the experiment, but it is a fascinating thought! <br /><br />Tim Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01611027687223434753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-48058410837181255352015-07-24T11:36:47.170-08:002015-07-24T11:36:47.170-08:00Good Lord! I cannot imagine the burn I get on the...Good Lord! I cannot imagine the burn I get on the topside being put directly into the bottom side! Let us know how it goes, but you're alone on this. Wilburnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-90587059692264999502015-07-24T10:41:53.859-08:002015-07-24T10:41:53.859-08:00@Anon - The smallest thing that should go in your ...@Anon - The smallest thing that should go in your ear or your anus is your elbow (old country doctor saying).wildcucumberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16984536305827910383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6914086676454800973.post-18650130904036491912015-07-24T09:43:33.527-08:002015-07-24T09:43:33.527-08:00I didn't really finish my line of reasoning fr...I didn't really finish my line of reasoning from above. I have had enough antibiotics in my day to know that I have dysbiosis. (recurrent UTI's, vaginal yeast, etc.) What if the garlic taken in this way would provide the needed "weeding" without causing excessive harm to the good flora? Then I could try to hit the prebiotic fibers hard without fear of feeding the bad guys. My first foray into potato starch brought some unpleasant reactions. I assumed that the feeding of those bad guys might have been the reason for the problem. I don't seem to have problems with potatoes when eaten. Thanks again for any insight you guys could offer. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com